Jamestown Distributors posted a video of an interesting [gel coat over epoxy repair] process.
[Moderator's note: The description of the presentation by its authors says: "This video is about small fiberglass and gel coat repair and the dilemma of using gelcoat over epoxy on boat repairs. It is not advised to do so, but can be done with small repairs that are not structural and with perfect preparation of the area."
Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
EJO
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
50th edition 2008 Montauk 150, w/60HP Mercury Bigfoot
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
50th edition 2008 Montauk 150, w/60HP Mercury Bigfoot
Re: Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
I watched the presentation on youTube. The presentation is well done. It has no narration track. Large text captions overlaid on the recording explain what is being done. You can dispense with the sound completely. The editing is very good. You don't have to bypass the first one-third of the presentation to get to something useful.
The repair process demonstrates the use of epoxy resin to make a repair to a fiberglass laminated boat. The repair uses several methods. All the products are from the same company, Total Boat.
At the end of the presentation, on-screen captions appear that explain that other procedures MUST be used, but the presentation did not demonstrate any of those procedures. I found it odd that the very comprehensive presentation of the procedure in a step-by-step demonstration did not demonstrate an important step in the procedure. The omitted step is only mentioned at the end in a caption.
These final captions also caution that this method must not be used for structural repairs. This is not explained in any way. The warning just comes on screen for a few seconds. I found this to very confusing. The method demonstrated appears to be an extremely well-done repair and capable of restoring the original laminated structure to new condition. Other than the presentation cautioning strongly that this method should not be used for structural repairs, I cannot see any reason why the method demonstrated would be inappropriate for making a structural repair.
At the very end of the presentation, a brief mention of a difference between chemical bonds and physical bonds is made, but there is no explanation of this or any detail given regarding how this difference is to be determined. I found this to also be confusing.
I was also confused by the comments provided about the presentation by the youTube uploader. He suggests that this method is not "advised" but nevertheless the presentation demonstrates the method. If the uploader believes this method is not advisable, why would he go to the trouble of creating this elaborate presentation of the method. These comments made no sense to me.
In summary, I found the almost seven-minute-long presentation to be interesting to watch, but I was completely confused by the last twenty seconds of it, when, following a very thorough step-by-step presentation of the method, seemingly contradictory information was given by a few captions presented over a background. They made no sense in the context of what had just been demonstrated in the preceding six minutes.
I have to conclude there was some disconnect between the expert demonstrating the repair method and the expert who created the recording, edited the material, and created the captions that appear once the demonstration of the method was concluded.
The repair process demonstrates the use of epoxy resin to make a repair to a fiberglass laminated boat. The repair uses several methods. All the products are from the same company, Total Boat.
At the end of the presentation, on-screen captions appear that explain that other procedures MUST be used, but the presentation did not demonstrate any of those procedures. I found it odd that the very comprehensive presentation of the procedure in a step-by-step demonstration did not demonstrate an important step in the procedure. The omitted step is only mentioned at the end in a caption.
These final captions also caution that this method must not be used for structural repairs. This is not explained in any way. The warning just comes on screen for a few seconds. I found this to very confusing. The method demonstrated appears to be an extremely well-done repair and capable of restoring the original laminated structure to new condition. Other than the presentation cautioning strongly that this method should not be used for structural repairs, I cannot see any reason why the method demonstrated would be inappropriate for making a structural repair.
At the very end of the presentation, a brief mention of a difference between chemical bonds and physical bonds is made, but there is no explanation of this or any detail given regarding how this difference is to be determined. I found this to also be confusing.
I was also confused by the comments provided about the presentation by the youTube uploader. He suggests that this method is not "advised" but nevertheless the presentation demonstrates the method. If the uploader believes this method is not advisable, why would he go to the trouble of creating this elaborate presentation of the method. These comments made no sense to me.
In summary, I found the almost seven-minute-long presentation to be interesting to watch, but I was completely confused by the last twenty seconds of it, when, following a very thorough step-by-step presentation of the method, seemingly contradictory information was given by a few captions presented over a background. They made no sense in the context of what had just been demonstrated in the preceding six minutes.
I have to conclude there was some disconnect between the expert demonstrating the repair method and the expert who created the recording, edited the material, and created the captions that appear once the demonstration of the method was concluded.
Re: Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
Jim I agree but like you said it shows a good representation of how to make a repair (structural or non-structural) with many layers of cloth. Total Boat or West System or any other brand, it doesn't matter it shows the major steps.
Yes you must take note of ALL the writing. never the less it was interesting and informative.
Yes you must take note of ALL the writing. never the less it was interesting and informative.
EJO
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
50th edition 2008 Montauk 150, w/60HP Mercury Bigfoot
"Clumsy Cleat"look up what it means
50th edition 2008 Montauk 150, w/60HP Mercury Bigfoot
Re: Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
Having done a repair or two below the water line and helped with above the water line repairs (spray "finish" required), I thought it was an OK video.
If you have a fear of attempting a repair, the procedure shown can help you give it a shot. As long as you don't grind through the hull, an expert could easily fix your patch if the result is unacceptable.
Two things I note; gel coat color matching is an art.
My local guy almost never has a perfect match when the repair is completed (mostly several years and greater in age boats). His answer is always the same, "look at it in 6 months".
The second thing i didn't see is most of the finish coat gel coat repairs I have done required some type of barrier between the uncured gel coat and the atmosphere.
Either acetate film or some type of water soluble spray on barrier.
If you have a fear of attempting a repair, the procedure shown can help you give it a shot. As long as you don't grind through the hull, an expert could easily fix your patch if the result is unacceptable.
Two things I note; gel coat color matching is an art.
My local guy almost never has a perfect match when the repair is completed (mostly several years and greater in age boats). His answer is always the same, "look at it in 6 months".
The second thing i didn't see is most of the finish coat gel coat repairs I have done required some type of barrier between the uncured gel coat and the atmosphere.
Either acetate film or some type of water soluble spray on barrier.
Thanks,
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF
Duane
2016 World Cat 230DC
1999 Outrage 21, Yamaha SW Series II 200
1997 Outrage 18, Yamaha 125
1983 15 SS, Honda 50
1980 42 Post
1983 34 Luhrs 340 SF
Re: Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
PORTHOLE makes a very good point: the presentation went to some length to demonstrate using a product called Peel-Ply as an overlay on curing epoxy resin, but showed nothing about top coating curing gel coat resin to isolate it from air. It is well known that epoxy resin cures easily without any need to block air from getting to it, but polyester resin used in gel coat usually will not cure to a hard finish if exposed to air and must be top coated with something to protect it from air. While nothing is mentioned about this in the presentation, I speculate that perhaps the particular brand of gel coat resin being used may have already pre-mixed into the resin some wax. The wax is intended to migrate to the surface as the resin cures, forming a top coat that isolates the resin from contact with air and allows the resin to cure to a hard finish underneath the wax. This is not, however, explained or mentioned in any way in the presentation.
Re: Gel Coat over Epoxy Repair Presentation youTube
I cannot help but mention that very good information and advice on the following topics:
--difference between adhesive bonds formed by epoxy and polyester resins,
--difference between primary and secondary bonds
--appearance of amine blush in curing epoxy
--how to remove amine blush without using an expensive product like Peel-Ply
--how to safely top coat epoxy repairs with gel coat polyester resin
and many other interesting aspects of making repairs with epoxy resin are all covered in two recorded interviews I conducted with Jim Watson of WEST SYSTEM and published many years ago in the Whaler Radio or Podcast section of the website. WEST SYSTEM is the grandaddy of marine epoxy formulators, and some of the most expensive boat hulls in the world are constructed with WEST SYSTEM epoxy. Whether or not repair of old Boston Whaler boats by back-yard, do-it-yourself, boat owners can successfully be accomplished with WEST SYSTEM epoxy (or other brands) is not really in any doubt in my mind. If the most advanced and exclusive hull fabricating shops in the world can use WEST SYSTEM epoxy to build multi-million-dollar yachts, I think it will good enough for my 24-year-old Boston Whaler to fill in some old fastener holes.
--difference between adhesive bonds formed by epoxy and polyester resins,
--difference between primary and secondary bonds
--appearance of amine blush in curing epoxy
--how to remove amine blush without using an expensive product like Peel-Ply
--how to safely top coat epoxy repairs with gel coat polyester resin
and many other interesting aspects of making repairs with epoxy resin are all covered in two recorded interviews I conducted with Jim Watson of WEST SYSTEM and published many years ago in the Whaler Radio or Podcast section of the website. WEST SYSTEM is the grandaddy of marine epoxy formulators, and some of the most expensive boat hulls in the world are constructed with WEST SYSTEM epoxy. Whether or not repair of old Boston Whaler boats by back-yard, do-it-yourself, boat owners can successfully be accomplished with WEST SYSTEM epoxy (or other brands) is not really in any doubt in my mind. If the most advanced and exclusive hull fabricating shops in the world can use WEST SYSTEM epoxy to build multi-million-dollar yachts, I think it will good enough for my 24-year-old Boston Whaler to fill in some old fastener holes.