posted 02-24-2004 04:35 PM ET (US)        

A month or so ago several members were tossing around the idea of ordering and purchasing a number of Guardian 18/19s as a group, hoping that BW would thereby give us/them a substantial price break. I don't think the idea went anywhere, and I know that for me the purchase of a new Guardian, even with the possibility of a nice price reduction, is out of the question for the foreseeable future--probably forever. But what if we turned the equation upside down and a small group of folks located fairly close to one another purchased one Guardian cooperatively together, somewhat like a limited partnership or timeshare arrangement. I know that partnerships always involve pitfalls, and that boat ownership and maintenance is in many ways a very personal thing, but wouldn't it be nice to have use of a big, new Guardian for a month or so per year (the days scattered over the seasons to be fair to every group member) for a reasonable price?

If no-one else in the NorCal group wants the hassle, I'd be glad to sacrifice and keep the boat in my driveway. More seriously and realistically, it would only cost twenty or thirty bucks a month per person to keep her slipped out here in Bodega Bay or down in the San Francisco Bay if the group consisted of half-a-dozen guys.

So what do you think?

Tony

posted 02-24-2004 06:31 PM ET (US)            

http://www.yachtworld.com/core/listing/pl_boat_detail.jsp?currency=USD&units=Feet&checked_boats=1146092&slim=quick&

I couldn't get the link to transfer, but just go to the Yacht World web site and do a search for 22' Boston Whalers.

posted 02-24-2004 11:02 PM ET (US)            

I spent about 15 years in a sailing club which had a similar arrangement wherein a group of people owned a number of boats as a collective and shared their use. It was a great way to go boating at reduced cost, but eventually I found that I needed to have my own boat. The shared boat was always suffering from something that frustrated me. I'd end up using most of my time aboard it fixing the same things over and over again.

If you had a very simpatico group of people, it might work, but my feeling is that eventually you would find disputes about the boat and its condition, its use, etc.

posted 02-24-2004 11:36 PM ET (US)            

Unfortunately, I think Jim is right on this one.

My uncle's first fishing boat, a Chris Craft 36', was a cooperative project with a long-time buddy. They remained good friends throughout their three year partnership, but the differences in standards, maintenance habits, and schedules created friction. And there were only two of them.

posted 02-25-2004 10:28 AM ET (US)            

I have to agree with Alkar on the part about being able to swing a deal and get your very own 18/19 Guardian. In fact, I think that is a great idea. You buy your very own brand new Guardian, power it with the motor of your choice (max horsepower!), and all your fishing buddies (I'm including the Sea Dog and myself in this equation) can keep you company on your new boat!

How does that sound?

On a more serious note: It would be hard to share a whaler for many of the reasons noted above. I don't think I could do it.

posted 02-25-2004 11:21 AM ET (US)            

Don't think I haven't considered using a line of credit and just grabbing the next fine Outrage that comes along. Unfortunately, my wife and I agreed twenty years ago when we decided to get married to never, ever buy anything on credit, except for our homes, and we've stuck to that plan. We use credit cards, of course, but pay the charges off within the month religiously. Still, rules ARE made to be broken...

posted 02-25-2004 11:38 AM ET (US)            

Tight lines, guys, and thanks for the good thoughts. I ain't complaining about my sweet old Katama, and if the right Outrage comes along, most probably in very "project boat" condition, I'll grab her and enjoy patching her up.

posted 02-25-2004 11:42 AM ET (US)            

I personally think you are a really nice guy from reading all your posts here in the past. I think you deserve a fine classic Outrage(Guardian) more than anyone I can imagine. I would do what Alkar suggested in his post. Life is way too short to always have to live buy some rules that were probably made a while ago. Don't get me wrong, it's a very wise rule and I also try to live by that rule. But if you were to remove all the boats from the waters that were financed with the so called "excitement plan", there wouldn't be many left over.
Go for it my friend !

Respectfully,

posted 02-25-2004 01:49 PM ET (US)            

Actually, my longer-term plans (three years from now) are to get my second child off to college and purchase a large live-aboard sailboat...maybe complete the circumnavigation I only half-finished in my youth. For this reason, though I'd grab a bargain Outrage in a minute, realistically I'm going to be boating/fishing in my Katama for a while, and loving every minute of it.

Best to all you nice folks. Surf's UP with gale force winds here in northern California, so no fishing this week...this too shall pass.

posted 02-25-2004 07:17 PM ET (US)            

Why not just keep your current 22?

Tony -

I feel your pain...Nothing like trying to find creative ways to get what you want! That's how it's got to be done sometimes.

I know there's a cherry 18 Outrage in a barn somewhere in Northern California...been sitting there for years, the owner is sick...kids never liked boating...one day when the estate has to be sold...you'll be waiting.

Good luck.

posted 02-25-2004 11:07 PM ET (US)            

Get a credit line on the house - and use the dough to buy your boat. It will only cost you about seven bucks per month for every thousand you borrow, the interest will be tax deductible, you'll be staying within the rules you set (sort of), and you'll have the dream you've earned.

You can buy a very nice 18' Outrage with new trailer and lots of goodies for less than $20K. Got anything better to do with $140/month?

How quickly have your last ten years passed? (My last ten passed in a blink.)

What else are you saving for?

Warmly, with grins, and only a slight tinge of guilt,

posted 02-25-2004 11:35 PM ET (US)            

In reading ALKARS response, I felt it necessary to put my 2-bits in.
Don't do it!! The only thing I can agree with is "My last 10 passed in a blink". That is very true..When your income capacity declines as years go by, you need your HOME paid off ! What else does a working man got for his or her future! In my opinion, decadence and live for today and disregard tomorrow is a fools game.
A larger boat is necessary only if you absolutely need it. Otherwise save the equity loan for that "absolute-need".
You and your wife have a great plan for your personal financial future, STICK TO IT!
If you can spare the $140 or whatever the payments are on a new boat, from your INCOME, then I would say DO IT!

KEEP ON TRACK "BRO"!!

posted 02-26-2004 01:22 AM ET (US)            

"Tom,

Thanks for your thoughtful e-mail. Go ahead and post that ad. She looks like a beautiful boat, and as I said a couple of weeks ago to Matt when he was considering buying Russ's Outrage, I'd buy her sight unseen on your personal
recommendation alone if I could swing it, but it just isn't in the cards right now. I was very close to convincing my brother-in-law to partner with me on
another boat -- he's retired and comfortable financially --but as he told me straight-up, why buy a cow when the milk's free? He and I are good friends, and he used to sail with me occasionally; now he fishes every couple of weeks in my Katama, brings along some great food and buys some bait, and doesn't want any more involvement than that. I really don't know anyone else down here who would be interested, and don't think I haven't considered a partnership as a solution.

I truly appreciate your helpfulness. Please do contact me immediately if you stumble over a "beater," and I'll grab her myself and enjoy fixing her up, as I have done with my poor old 16/17, which I brought back (most of the way) from the grave. But Tom, I don't want to be seen as someone who is obsessing about the immediate need for a boat, or, worse yet, one of those guys who talks
incessantly about buying a Whaler but never follows through...what a bore! I'm not going to post anymore about my casual, long-term search for another boat, because it seems weird to me to get all these good ideas and helpful suggestions from folks and then not follow through.

Thanks again, my friend. I sure have enjoyed learning about Whalers and small motorcraft skills in general from many of your posts, and your CDs have been a source of great pleasure.

Very best regards,

Tony Wilde"
_______________________________________________________

I do thank all you guys for many helpful and supportive suggestions. I'm going to leave this topic alone for now, but if I suddenly stumble into something I'll post, just for fun. Some of you old-timers make occasional reference to a CW member--I've forgotten his handle--who bored everyone for years with his search for a boat...again and again seeking advice about a new find, and then never following through with a purchase. I ain't him! I've got a Whaler that I love, another month or so I'll be into my second salmon season with her, and we'll see what happens along the way.

posted 02-26-2004 12:50 PM ET (US)            

If I come across an unbelievably good deal/cheap Whaler, I certainly won't be telling you about it! I'll buy it myself ;-)

For those of you who might be interested, this is the boat I thought Tony might like:

http://adcache.boattraderonline.com/6/4/8/66191548.htm

It appears to be a near perfect package with near new power. Somebody ought to buy it. I am sure the price could be negotiated down a bit, but up here, it's not far off of market value.

posted 02-26-2004 03:11 PM ET (US)            

Check this out, if not interested I will post on MARKETPLACE with contact information. Email me if interested.

1989 BW 18' (warranty replacement hull w/new tank)
Yamaha 1998 (124 hours)
Trolling motor on bracket
Trailer w/power winch (new axle 2003) Galv.
Bimini top,compass, depth finder, vhf,
Custom prof. made center console (mahogony)to fact. specs.

This replacement hull did not come with SS rails (no holes).

Barn kept. Very little use. $12,500