posted 12-20-2004 02:43 PM ET (US)        

I'm now looking at a Toyota 4Runner (V6). Salesmen at Toyota tell me a V-6 will do the job towing my 18 ft. dauntless w/ a Yami 150 and T-Top. I know they'll
tell you anything, but they say the 6 will be very adequate. I was looking at the 8 however they're are few of them around, and more pricy.Someone here mentioned to only consider an 8, however I want some other feedback to see if the 6 will work and I'm not making a mistake.

posted 12-20-2004 03:21 PM ET (US)            

Before buying my boat and full size truck, I towed my 1900# trailer home with my 4Runner. I live in a hilly area and it towed the empty trailer just fine. However, I did feel the weight of the trailer under tow so my guess is that I would not want to tow anything more than 3000# with this SUV.

posted 12-20-2004 03:34 PM ET (US)            

Did you ask them if they were so confident if they'd let you test tow the rig? This is really the only way you'll know for sure what does and does not work for you.

posted 12-20-2004 04:59 PM ET (US)            

If you are considering a new model (would love to trade mine for a 2005) I think the 6 is adequate but would go with the 8 cyl since your hull is alot heavier than mine.

Here are the engine specs for 2005

V 6 - 245 HP - 282 Ft/Lbs torque
V 8 - 270 HP - 330 Ft/Lbs torque

posted 12-20-2004 05:20 PM ET (US)            

The V6 2005 4runner towing capacity is 5000 pounds. The V8 2005 4runner is 7000 pounds (4 wheel drive)

V6- 4 liter, 245 horsepower, 282 lb ft torque @ 3800 rpms

V8- 4.7 liter, 270 horsepower, 330 lb ft torque @ 3400 rpms

I own a 2004 4Runner, Sport Edition with the V8 and all wheel drive. I have close to 10,000 miles on the vehicle and I am very happy with it. I have not towed with it yet though.

If you can swing the extra dollars I would highly recommend the V8. You can see the difference not only in the horsepower but the torque. The Sport Edition E-XREAS active suspension makes for a great ride and excellent handling. The V8 also has the 5 speed transmission as opposed to the 4 speed with the V6. The full time 4 wheel drive does have the low range and hi range selector. It also has a locking differential/transfer case.

Be careful on the model year if you do go for the V8. The 2004 4.7 liter V8 is around 235 horsepower. The 2005 V8 is a VVT-i engine, producing more horsepower and torque. I had read that availability of the new V8 may be early 2005. So if you want the more powerful V8 definitely verify that the vehicle has it in it. You may get a good deal on a 2004 V8 model but it will more than likely be the less powerful motor. The 2004 V8, even though less horsepower, puts out more torque than the 2004 V6.

As Hooter said on the flat the V6 will probably do it for you. Hilly terrain I would want the extra torque of the V8.

The 4Runner is still body on frame construction, not a unibody. It has a solid rear axle and independent front suspension. It rides and handles like a dream.

www.toyota-4runner.org You will probably be able to get some very relevant first hand experience reports of towing with a V6 vs the V8 4Runner here.

Good luck with your choice.

Rich

posted 12-20-2004 06:03 PM ET (US)            

The V8 had a transmission oil cooler when I looked last year while the cooler was not available on the V6. That's probably one reason why the V8 has a higher tow capacity.

The Consumer Reports Magazine originally panned the new (after 2003 model year ) 4Runner with the V6 engine as very high in initial customer complaints. Toyota has since fixed the problem but CR was clear in emphasizing the 4Runner problem was NOT with the V8 version.

posted 12-20-2004 06:17 PM ET (US)            

I have a 2004 Toyota 4Runner with the V6 engine and I pull a 2000 Montauk.

I love the truck. It's terrific. Great design, great fit and finish, reliable, et al.

The owners manual recommends trailer brakes for gross trailer weights over 1500 pounds. I figure that my Montauk, with the Evinrude (Suzuki) 4 stroke, and on a heavy duty galvanized Pacific Trailer (1000 pound trailer) is between 2500 pounds and 3000 pounds. So I installed some Kodiak stainless steel disk brakes and they work great. Before the brakes, the trailer pushed the vehicle discernably. After the brakes, the truck-trailer stop pretty as you please.

It does OK with towing ... and I have done lots of it. I probably have 2500 miles towing on it this year, including round trip from San Jose, CA, to just north of Seattle. Going up over the Siskyyou summit I probably slowed down to 40 mph.

I tow at highway speeds in 3rd gear (four speed automatic transmission). I find that it tows much better ... less susceptible to the pushes and jerks that all trailers exhibit.

Two towing recommendations that I didn't follow: one says to have an anti-sway device; I don't. Have had no problem whatsoever with trailer sway. Another recommendation is 45 mph max speed while towing, which I figure was written by the lawyers.

I agree with others, longer wheel bases and bigger engines improve towing ability in a vehicle. And the 4Runner has a short wheel base. I like the short wheel base because it fits in my garage.

I would think that the Dauntless 18 with motor on a trailer would be 3500 pounds minimum before gas (7 pounds per gallon ?) or anything else. And you've got a T-top, so I think you are probably well up over 4000 pounds.

There are many times I wish I had had the V8. The V8 comes with a beefier hitch, a 5 speed automatic transmission, and I have to think it would tow more successfully than the V6.

So ... I would recommend that V8 in a new 4Runner to tow your Dauntless 18; I would recommend the V6 to tow a Montauk.

posted 12-22-2004 11:32 AM ET (US)            

The Toyota is extremely reliable. We have a 1997 4-Runner we bought in the Fall of 1996. I can say this vehicle is one of the most economical SUVs to run. I have not had one single problem with it and I perform all the maintenance as scheduled per the manual. My friends have Yukons and Excursions and they complain about their vehicle's mechanical problems quite often. I just smile and drink my beer.

posted 12-22-2004 12:02 PM ET (US)            

The Landcruiser is the biggest SUV model for Toyota.

We have them here "Stateside" too.

Not sure of the 4 Runner's availability over there in the UK.

Here's the 4Runner:
http://www.toyota.com/4runner/
($28,000 - $33,000 MSRP)

Here's the Land Cruiser:
http://www.toyota.com/landcruiser/
($55,000 MSRP)

posted 12-23-2004 09:16 AM ET (US)            

Just came across this thread as well as the one on the Pilot.

I noticed that you live in Florida, 5 minutes from the launch, with an occasional 3-4 hour trip to the Keys thrown in. How often do you tow with the boat? In my opinion, the V-6 in either in the 4Runner or the Pilot will be more than powerful enough for your requirements. Talk about a low stress trailering use. Short trips, flat roads and I would imagine fairly level ramps.

The 4Runner is a body on frame which would conceivably give it a sturdier structure, but also make it much heavier and "truck" like. The gas mileage would also be lower and the ride stiffer. The Pilot is a unibody construction. This will give you a smoother ride on the highway and better gas mileage. The Toyota and Honda quality is near the top of the list, as is the re-sale value.

Not sure why everyone is so set on a V-8. We are talking modern engines here. Does the V-8 have more torque and power than a V-6? In most cases. But at what point do the HP/Tq numbers become enough? I would venture to guess that 90+% of V-8's on the road today (in service, not on a dealers lot) have less than the 255HP available in a Pilot or the 245 in the 4Runner.

From a comfort, relaibilty and value proposition, the GMC and Ford offerings in this range are not even close. The Pilot and 4Runner are far superior in almost ALL categories. There is a reason that you pay close to list price for these vehicles. People want them.

I think we all need to keep one major fact in mind when talking about tow vehicles. 98% of the trailering public spends 97+% of the vehicles life doing something other than towing a boat. Why make such a huge compromise in your choice of vehicle for the miniscule amount of time that you spend pulling something behind it.

posted 12-23-2004 10:59 AM ET (US)            

I understand where you're going with this, but it's exactly the "3% of vehicle use" that you should be worried about. I still would buy the V8. Here's why:

When can you say you have enough torque? Here are the engine specs:

4.7L V8
270 Hp @ 5400 RPM
330 Lb-Ft @ 3500 RPM
MPG: 15/19 (Full time 4-WD)

4.0L V6
245 Hp @ 5200 RPM
282 Lb-Ft @ 3800 RPM
MPG: 18/22 (Selectable 4-WD)

Comparisons for towing:
* V8 has nearly 18% more torque at its peak of 3500 RPM
* The V8 has a 300RPM lower torque peak, which is where you want it for towing and acceleration.
* V8 design (4.7L displacement over 8 cylinders) allows for a flatter torque curve. You remember the phrase, "There's no subsitiute for cubic inches"? This is why.
* Horsepower doesn't twist drives shafts, torque does. Horsepower is a rate of power applied (Ft-Lbs per second). It is a measure of how fast you can apply the engine's torque!
* Horsepower affects the passing ability on the highway. The V8 has over 10% more Hp than the V6-which is not very significant by itself. The significance is that the peak is 200RPM higher than the V6, which is unusual and significant. The V6 runs out of "grunt" sooner than the V8. You will know this by looking down at your tachometer and seeing it move very slowly while applying full throttle to pass a slower vehicle.
* Horsepower and torque ratings without the associated RPM ranges or peaks are worthless numbers. The output of an engine is variable based upon how many RPM you are turning.
* V6 versus V8 MPG: The cost savings in normal driving (non-towing) a V6 over a V8 at $2.00 per gallon and 15,000 miles per year is:
$ 333.33 city
$ 215.30 highway

posted 12-23-2004 12:11 PM ET (US)            

I fully agree with you on the HP vs. Tq, no debate here on the physical specs involved. I'm just trying to point out the vast majority of the vehicles life will be spent being a CAR. Mid-range passing power and lower RPM torque should be inconsequential on a 5 minute drive to the ramp, unless 10 people with the V-8 model storm in-front of you and get in line first. ;-) This is especially true in virtually flat Florida.

I probably love power, and can appreciate it, more than most people. I didn't mean to insinuate that there is no use for higher HP/TQ than the 255. Will a mega GMC with the 6.0 liter Vortech (375+ lb. ft) pull better than a V-6? Of course. Would I want to live with the total package every day? Nope.

On the gas difference, this would work out to an extra $11 per trip based upon 30 tows per year (I know the mpg ratings are for unladen vehicles). The extra upfront cost of the V-8 option package would probably also be quite a bit higher, further increasing the price differential.

For my SUV money, I don't think you could ask for a better all around performer than the Pilot. My brother has one that I have driven and towed with. The power is always on tap, the ride is very comfortable, plenty of room for people and gear, and you have all the modern amenities.