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Author Topic:   History of FORCE Outboard motors

kdsundb posted 06-06-2005 07:23 PM ET (US)
What is the history of FORCE nee CHRYSLER outboard motors? Are there any well-known problems with these engines?
I am considering the purchase of a 1998 40-HP Force by Mercury engine, which appears very clean, to mount on a 1984 13 Sport.
Binkie posted 06-06-2005 07:40 PM ET (US)
The one good thing I can say about Force outboards, is that they are easy to work on. Almost like working on your lawnmower engine. Parts are plentiful and cheap on E-Bay. Actually the old Chrysler engines from the early `60s were pretty good, not so the late model Force motors.
LHG posted 06-06-2005 07:53 PM ET (US)
Here is what I know:
Chrysler sold the engine line to Bayliner, who I believe are the ones who gave it the Force name. They wanted low cost engines to factory rig their boats, perhaps an idea of ahead of it's time.
Then, when Brunswick purchased Bayliner, these probably unwanted, and mostly obsolete, engines came with the deal.
Mercury decided to spruce them up and improve them, with Mercury gear cases/props, CD ignition systems, etc., and market them as 2nd tier engines. I understand, they were actually pretty good, but not really hot performers and with a second tier, "cheapout" image for the owners. The situation spooked Yamaha and OMC enough that they downgraded their own lines, removing oil injection and other items, so they, too, would have a second tier line. OMC called them the "Special" engines, with odd ball HP number to set them apart. Yamaha had a designation for theirs also. As clean technology became mandated, this engine had to die, so Mercury dumped it in favor of putting Merc engine son Bayliners, and all their other brands also.
Look at it as an economical motor, without much re-sale value. But it will get you around.
jimh posted 06-07-2005 08:23 AM ET (US)
The FORCE brand name has been abandoned. This, in itself, is an indicator of the general public opinion of the engines. If the brand carried any particular special attraction, I don't think the manufacturer would have dropped it.
The FORCE brand now seems to carry a negative connotation. Whether that is completely deserved or not is a matter for a good debate. As LHG chronicled, the engines were always positioned as a low-cost alternative.
When considering purchase of a used FORCE engine, in addition to all the usual cautions, you should consider the generally lower value given to these products by most boaters.
acassidy posted 06-07-2005 09:00 AM ET (US)
And who can forget the 5 cylinder 150.
HuronBob posted 06-07-2005 09:31 AM ET (US)
kdsundb...
don't forget that you're asking this question on a board that is frequented by folks that have a strong sense of tradition and quality, and tend to frown on ANYTHING that isn't considered top dog in its product category.... 'nuf said...
I was the proud owner of a little 17' bayliner bought new about 1990, it came with a factory installed 70 hp Force engine.
Was this a rocket, not at all, but it did well on the little bayliner (which, to counter the local nay-sayers, I thought was a neat little boat with a nice design).
I owned the boat and engine for 10 years, since we lived a mile from the boat launch it got a lot of use. The engine was flawless in its performance, the ONLY repair in 10 years (other than regular plug changes and lower unit lube) was the replacement of the overheat sensor on the engine (the original liked to go off for no reason). When I sold the boat it still looked great and the engine was still running strong.
Personally, I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing it if the service record is good and the engine checks out ok.
TexasWhaler posted 06-07-2005 10:04 AM ET (US)
HuronBob stated: "Personally, I wouldn't hesitate in purchasing it if the service record is good and the engine checks out ok."

A 15 year old Bayliner and matching Force outboard?
Please Bob, tell us your kidding.
Florida15 posted 06-07-2005 10:32 AM ET (US)
Heck, the engine may fit your needs. Just keep in mind that resell is going to be very low if you decide to sell in a few years. Therefore, you should be getting a steal on it when you buy it. If it's just a matter of a few hundred bucks, I would buy a Yamaha, OMC, Merc,anything but a Force.
WSTEFFENS posted 06-07-2005 10:35 AM ET (US)
Gentlemen:
I believe that you will find that "Force" started out as "West Bend" a mfg of house hold appliances and lawn mowers. This was in the late 40's or early 50's. I suppose they got in the bussiness because they were really good at aluminum die casting (similar to "Martin" made by the National Pressure Cooker company). The "West Bend" OB had a bright red cowling similar to the lawn mowers that they made. As for why "Chrysler" bought them I think LHG most likely has the best handle on it. The engins were always sort of "orphans" same as "Scott-Attwater".
For what it is worth!
WLS
chrisvs posted 06-07-2005 10:45 AM ET (US)
Hi Everyone
I am going to place my first post on this website in defence of this motor. (am I living on the edge or what!)
I own the 1994 version of this motor on a 16' aluminium fishing boat. The boat and motor was purchased new by my father in law. I have owned it for 2 years.
The motor has been as reliable as can be, with no repairs required until this year (new water pump impeller and lower unit seal kit). It starts easily and runs without so much as a sputter.
From what I understand this motor is a Chrysler from top to bottom with the ecception of a Mercury ignition system.
Is it as refined as an E-Tec? Nope, it is basic old school outboard technology.
Has it ever kept myself or my father in law from having a good day on the water? Nope, it has always started and ran without fail.
If it fits your needs and budget, it checks out o.k., and you can live with the fact that it is what it is, I would go for it. Just don't pay to much for it.
HuronBob posted 06-07-2005 10:46 AM ET (US)
TexasWhaler--My experience with the Force I owned for ten years was excellent (actually better than the two year old 4 stroke Yamaha I own)... Others may have had different experiences, the point of asking a question like this is to gather different opinions in order to make a decision...
Interesting thing here, is that most of the opinions offered seem to be hearsay. In reviewing the thread it appears that I may be the only one that responded that actually owned a Force engine, or at least the only one that was willing to admit that he owned one, although it sounds like Binkie has worked on them.
TexasWhaler posted 06-07-2005 10:51 AM ET (US)
Just promise that you won't buy that Bayliner back if it comes up for sale.
Things to avoid:
1. That 1990 Bayliner
2. Ford Pintos
3. Corvairs
SS17 posted 06-07-2005 11:21 AM ET (US)
A little known fact. When U.S. Marine needed a new moniker for its new line of outboards, it was decided that "FORCE" was an easy abbreviation for:
"F[reak]ing Old Rebuilt Chrysler Engine"
And there you have the history of FORCE.
And yes, the 5 cylinder 150s with the broken crankshafts and occassional frisby flywheel where ahead of their time.
RIP Force.
Binkie posted 06-07-2005 11:36 AM ET (US)
Actually I own an early 70`s, 3 cylinder 85 Chrysler. I mounted the powerhead on a semi-rare racing lower unit, that Chrysler used during their brief time in OPC racing in the early 70`s. I picked up the gearcase and the mid section last year at a marine salvage, for way, way less than the cost of a Merc Quicksilver racing lower unit, The motor is mounted on my restored class F Racing runabout. Its a real screamer, and I run it at the Antique Outboard Meets. Most people have never seen a rig like this. I have a back up powerhead if it blows, and I can change it out in less than an hour, its so simple. The gearcase is bulletproof,(better than Merc quickies) and the powerheads are disposable and cheap.
Knot at Work posted 06-07-2005 12:14 PM ET (US)
about the only thing more cheesy than a Force outboard is old reruns of C.H.I.P.'s
those that defend this motor... also wear wore leisure suits, and liked them.
kdsundb posted 06-07-2005 06:16 PM ET (US)
WOW - lot to digest here. Thanks ... I think.
I will try a low ball number for the motor with the expectation that resale will suffer. It is not likely that the 13 is going for sale anytime soon anyway. This boat is primarily used by my 15 year old son and some knee board buddies. I can't see making the investment on a new merc or yami. Just want to get by till the next ...Dad, we have a little problem with the boat.
I'll stay away from the Corvair, Bayliner and Pintos and Cherry Bombs.
mobey posted 06-07-2005 09:27 PM ET (US)
My nieghbor bought a used- but in good condition early 1990's (maybe a 1995 ?) 15 ft. Starcraft fishing boat with a 40 HP Force. He bought the rig for a pretty modest price. The motor runs flawlessly. He is quite happy with it all. There's little doubt that if the outboard would have been a Mercury/ Yamaha/ Evinrude he would have paid an additional $500.00 to $1,000 for the boat/ motor combo. I'd say that the FORCE IS with him! (sorry)
Kingsteven18 posted 06-08-2005 06:47 AM ET (US)
I worked for a Bayliner dealer 2 summers ago. We took in trade MANY Bayliner packages from back in the 80's that still had their original Force engines running in excellent condition, and these were from back in the Chrysler/Force days.
sweetrevenge posted 06-09-2005 09:27 AM ET (US)
Every so often I see a center console with twin Force motors go by my house. The funny thing is he always has one trimmed up, but its not always the same one. So I figure he's either saving gas or he can never get one started... They also smoke like hell... MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU.
kdsundb posted 06-10-2005 09:35 PM ET (US)
OK - After much negotiation...I bought the Force motor.
It is really very simple under the cowl. I was able to use the Merc. Controls already on the BW. It is a 1998 40HP with ugly decal (will see about changing) stating FORCE BY MERCURY.
I got it up and running in the driveway. Sea trials this weekend. Only drawback so far is they don't have a telltale stream on the smaller motors. There is a spray indicator just above the water line on the very back of the motor. Dumb place.
- I expect the 13 to fly.
brentmi posted 04-17-2009 02:48 PM ET (US)
I traded for a 1989 Bayliner with a Force 150hp about 10 years ago. The Boat sat in the sun in florida for about 7 years and wasnt used once, but it was stored properly and the force engine has less than 100 hours on it. When we traded, I dragged the boat from florida to michigan. The engine ran horrible, wouldnt idle, couldt go full throttle, would always flood out and stall. My friend that owned it before me said he took the carberators off it before to clean them and put it all back together before not using it for all those years. I messed with the engine for 4 years and still had no luck. I was to the point where i was about to sell the motor for cheap and go out and buy a used mercury 150hp. Put it in the barn for a year and didnt mess with it. then that spring, was drinking beer with my buddies and where messing with it and noticed the throttle linkage for the 3 carbs didnt look right, so I took it off and it appeared to be on upside down and put it back together. It actually started easily, would idle, not flood out, so i put it in the water and it ran great. The force engine has ran fine for the last 4 years, had to replace the water pump and seal once, normal maintenance. When you tilt the damn engine up and then put it down to start it , its a pain to get started again! When the Force blows up eventually im gonna replace it with a used mercury.
Hilinercc posted 04-20-2009 11:45 AM ET (US)
I worked part-time at a FORCE outboard dealer in c.1985 when I was in college. The dealer sold them with his Maxim boat line (top-shelf Bayliners). My job was to set the boats up. We sold a lot of 17', 20' and 23' MAXIM boats which came with either 85 or125 Force outboard motors or 3.0- or 5.0-liter MerCruiser sterndrive motors. Most of the boats we sold were sterndrives, but the 85 and 125 outboard motors that went out the door never seemed to come back. Most of our clients were boaters on a freshwater lake, so maybe that had something to do with it. I do remember these US Marine Force outboards being easy to install and set up. The F-5 150 was announced just before I left, but I never saw hardly any of those motors out in the field.
Buckda posted 04-20-2009 11:55 AM ET (US)
Wow. Reviving a 5-years-dead post.
Future contributions are irrelevant to the original poster, who either did or did not buy this 40 HP FORCE outboard for his 13' Whaler in 2005!
This is an incredible Lazarus thread.
R T M posted 04-20-2009 01:50 PM ET (US)
Who cares if this is a 5 year old thread. I love Chrysler outboards. Mercury might have screwed up Force though, but the early Force motors were Chrysler. They are super easy to work on and parts are super cheap in boneyards. I picked up a 135 hp Chrysler Stacker racing outboard(called Stackers because of the huge Exhaust stacks) These motors gave Mercury fits in OPC racing in the `60`s but there was no factory support available, so not many used them.
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2613363440091848696JDJQQX
I ran a 85hp 3 cylinder powerhead on it for 4 years at the AOMCI events, and am in the process of converting it back to a 4cyl. 105 hp
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/AOMCImeetatTaveras.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/raceboat4.jpg
rich(Binkie)
skred posted 04-20-2009 03:24 PM ET (US)
I guess there'll always be engine badge bigots.... I've owned Merc, Yamaha, Evinrude and a bunch of others. My '92 Montauk, which I bought new in 92, came unrigged. I didn't hesitate to put a "Force by Mercury" 90 on it. First major point was the over $1000 I saved on an engine. That engine gave me 4-1/2 years of flawless performance - averaging 100-200 hours per year. Never needed a single part or service call. The buyer I sold it to is STILL running that motor and has had no malfunctions whatsoever. I got a lot of static about this observation, but I'll repeat it regardless. I met up with another '90's Montauk with a major brand-name 90 on it, and we had a run-off on the St. Croix River. Essentially the same loads on both boats. I ran his flippers off. In 1/2 mile, he was a little more than 900 feet astern... Engine weight may have been a factor, since my Force had no oil injection system, but I'd put that motor against any 90 of its era. I understood that essentially the only original Force components were the main block/powerhead - the rest was Mercury.
bikini posted 04-26-2009 07:22 PM ET (US)
Those wanting to walk down memory lane stating that West Bend made coffee pots perhaps are correct in the sense that they did; what is being missed here is that they also made some hefty engines for go carts in the late 50's/early 60's era. Back then the big hitters were West Bend, McCullough, and Power Products. I had the latter: a cart with twin AH-47's with a live axle [the "positraction" of the era]. Fast??! All made great engines, and those wishing to sling mud at Force engines because of their previous ties to West Bend are simply {sorry for the pun} 'missing the boat'. Come on guys, Force's association with Bayliner was providing a product such that many could enjoy boating that otherwise could not. One of my favorite boats ever, my second, was a 13' Whaler with a 35HP Evinrude; my first, a 14' Lone Star with a rope start 25HP Johnson that I paid $125 for boat/motor/trailer. All Force did was meet a market need; we're not talking Whaler, Sea Ray, Grady-White or a past favorite: Striker.
pglein posted 04-27-2009 04:38 PM ET (US)
Force was the brand of outboard used exclusively by Bayliner and was not, to my knowledge, successfuly sold in any other way.
'nuff said.
fastdaddy55 posted 04-29-2009 05:46 PM ET (US)
Can anyone tell me anything about a 1994 Force? Is it part Mercury or what & any experiences good or bad & what are some of the quirks or problems with this motor. I just bought one at a good deal to replace my old worn out johnson 70 on my pontoon boat. My parents have one 50 hp on a small pontoon boat & have never had a problem with it & its an 89 model. Any info would be helpful, Thanks.
Dave Sutton posted 04-29-2009 06:10 PM ET (US)
"Force was the brand of outboard used exclusively by Bayliner and was not, to my knowledge, successfuly sold in any other way."

AFAIK, that was only at the end of the run.
I had a 125 on a 20 foot Trophy and it was bulletproof. Simple, durable, and without any pretense to sex-appeal. It just worked. I would buy another and run the crap outta it.

Dave
.
high sierra posted 04-29-2009 11:46 PM ET (US)
I had a 1984 Bayliner Trophy with a 125 Force (Chrysler)on it that I bought new in 84. Had it 20 years. Replaced 1 power pack , 3 water pumps, one flywheel key ( my own fault as I failed to torque the flywheel down) and rebuilt the carbs. Ran that motor wide open 90 % of the time. Had 1200 hours on it. Boat was totally maintenance free after the initial dealer screwups. Trophy was much better than my 18 Outrage in rough water due to deep vee hull. I actually owned the boat, not heresay. high sierra
gwcpa posted 04-30-2009 09:46 AM ET (US)
US Marine installed them on Bass boats (Cobra?), Trophy, Bayliner, Maxum, and whatever else they made that needed a cheap outboard. I saw them rigged OEM on other makes as well, usually as low cost entry level boats at boat shows.
The "L" drive was the pinacle of Force engineering design. An waterline level outboard powerhead with a quasi-I/O lower unit for those who couldn't decide between and I/O and outboard.
Water ingestion was a problem, along with many other flaws. I doubt many of them are still in operation today.
R T M posted 04-30-2009 03:40 PM ET (US)
Chrysler built racing motors in the late sixties to early seventies.
Here is a picture of my '67 Chrysler race motor. I don`t use the cover but have installed a flywheel shield.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/chrys3.jpg
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/chry2.jpg
rich/Binkie
fastdaddy55 posted 04-30-2009 04:34 PM ET (US)
I forgot to mention the size of the engine that I was wanting info on. 1994 Force 90 hp, would like to know anything anyone has to say about this engine good or bad. Thanks.
high sierra posted 04-30-2009 10:01 PM ET (US)
Propping the motor is the biggest item. They all came with props that were 3 to 4 inches too big a pitch. This would not allow them to get into the best RPM range. Use synthetic oil as well!!! Your 90 is a basically a Merc without all the frills. high sierra
RJG posted 04-30-2009 11:15 PM ET (US)
In 1972 my father had a choice of repower for our 16' Katama. A used Evinrude 70 or a new Chrysler 70. I begged him not to buy the Chrysler but he did anyway. Oh the shame. Well that old Chrysler ( we called it 'the Chysler') ran like a champ for the next 12 years until we sold the boat. I think dad had to replace 1 power pack. Me and my high school friends spent years and hundreds of hours skiing at WOT behind that old motor without a hickup. We lived on a brackish creek before moving out to the outer Islands where the boat was kept on davits. The motor was never flushed. We moved again to a condominium where the boat sat in the water and the salt finally began to eat the motor up.

Fast foward.
My next door neighbor has a 90 Force on an old Bayliner. He uses it to dredge the mud and sediment out of the canal behind the house. The power trim does not work so at low tide the lower unit just sits in the mud. When the tide rises he cranks the old Force up and motors up and down the canal turning the sediment and mud so he can get out at all but the lowest tide. I have watched him do this for 4 years and that Force motor just won't quit.
Yea, Force motors may not be very sexy but the technology they use has been well proven
CLK posted 04-30-2009 11:35 PM ET (US)
MAY THE FORCE BE WITH YOU,....
............... JUST NOT BEHIND YOU.

Cheers!
~CLK
ps - apologies if that's a repeat - didn't read the entire thread.
brisboats posted 05-01-2009 08:05 AM ET (US)
When Mercury started adding their componentry the motors they were actually much better. I put some hours on a 1997 Force 70 horsepower with the Mercury lower unit and electronics. The motor was a simple three cylinder with a single carb and purred. Mercury's power trim system was much better than the earlier Force offering too. The motor wasn't as smooth as a Yamaha nor as powerful as an OMC triple but it got the job done. Some may liken running one to driving a moped to a Biker bar but it still beats wasting on a couch.
Brian
Salty Tricks posted 05-01-2009 08:54 AM ET (US)
Wow a four years and running Force AND Bayliner bashing fest.....what fun! Can I join?
Actually my second favorite boat of all time is my Montauk. My favorite is my 1989 Bayliner 2302 Trophy that I bought new with the 150 5 cylinder Force. Used that motor for 15 years. I replaced it with a used Rude only because I kept adding crap on my boat where the 150 wasn't enough power to push the extra weight anymore. Sold it to another Bayliner owner who still uses that motor! Heard all the stories for 20 years now from all the badge whores who said it wouldn't last past my second monthly payment. Well the boat has been paid off for years and it now pays me. They say you get what you pay for. I did.....I just paid thousands less.
Salty Tricks posted 05-01-2009 09:16 AM ET (US)
I'm Sorry
The opportunity to post a pic of a Bayliner AND a Force motor on a Boston Whaler site was to overwhelming.
This was the last year for my Force on this boat.
http://momentoffame.com/photopost/data/501/medium/Salty_Tricks_2004_Starboard_Side.jpg
R T M posted 05-01-2009 12:56 PM ET (US)
http://momentoffame.com/photopost/data/501/medium/ Salty_Tricks_2004_Starboard_Side.jpg
Tohsgib posted 05-01-2009 01:15 PM ET (US)
Growing up there was a guy who was in the slip next to my fathers who had an old Thunderbird cuddy with a chrysler 105 on it. Every saturday we would go down to the boat and he would have the cowl off his 105. We would put the old 100 Rude in the water and crank it up and leave for the day. We would come back and he the cowl would still be off. Sunday was usually the same. Next weekend...ditto. About once or twice a season the boat would be missing but we never knew if he got it running or it was at the shop. This went on for like 3 seasons and was a joke. "I got dibs on Joe's boat not running again today" as we pulled down the street. One season a new boat and owner shared the slip next to us...never saw "Joe" again nor knew if he ever got that POS running. To this day that is etched in my head and hence why I would NEVER own a Force or equiv. The 1972 Rude 100 was retired in 1982. Friend's dad bought it and used it on his Mako for at least another 8-10 years before it puked. Motor was never flushed and the Mako guy left it in 365 days a year...poor engine.
Was driving down Rt75 behind a friend who was towing a boat north, he has a fiberglass business. This 1980ish bowrider rolls past with a 140 Chrysler on it that was mint. He calls me on my cell "Did you see that Chrysler? Thing was mint, probably the only one left in FL that runs." It is not just a whaler thing, everyone knows they have a bad rep. It is however cool to see a mint one on E-Bay and think, that would look sweet on my boat...but then again I don't want to be laughed at by my neighbor's kids like we laughed at "Joe".
Tohsgib posted 05-01-2009 01:18 PM ET (US)
Ps...local boat yard in my town ironically called "The Boat Yard" used to sell Volvo Penta or Archemedes Penta outboards. A bunch of locals who i guess did not know any better bought them, mostly small kickers but a few 35-65hp I believe. Within I bet 7 years there was not one left on Kinsey Cove...another engineering marvel I guess.
R T M posted 05-01-2009 02:49 PM ET (US)
The problem with the old Chryslers were not so much as bad engineering or design as it was with the newbie type boater that owned them and knew nothing about maintenance. I believe they were the first outboard to have CD units, and they caused a lot of trouble. Three years ago, I bought a 75hp 3 cylinder about 1975. I planned to use the powerhead on my racing lower unit. The motor was used very little, but had no spark due to a bad CD unit, (about $300.) I removed the CD unit, added a 12volt coil and a voltage regulator, and moved some wires around, had spark and it ran great. These motors have a point type distributer. I recently replaced the 3 cylinder powerhead with a 4 cylinder 105 powerhead from a motor I found at Don`s marine Salvage in St. Pete. The motor wasw laying out in the dirt, but is was coplete, and the flywheel wold turn over, I didn`t see any evidance of overheating, so I took a chance and paid $200 for it. I put it on a stand found it had good spark, the CD unit worked, and had great compression. I started it on earmuffs on a stand, but had to keep squeezing the bulb so it would keep running. I ordered a kit to rebuild the fuel pump. I should say that the twin carbs were all gummed up inside, so I took the carbs off the 3 cylinder( most parts are interchangable between 3 and 4 cylinder engines) and bolted them on. The motor started like it was run yesturday and ran great. I also reset the timing, I have a manual, and these motors are as easy to work on as a lawnmower engine. I removed the 3cylinder powerhead and installed the 4 cylinder on the racing LU and ran it in a barrle for an hour. It seems to have a lot of power. I also ran Sea Foam through the carbs and let soak in the Cylinders overnight.
The big test will be on the 16th when I run the F-Runabout with this powerhead. I was making only 58mph with the 3 banger, as the prop had to much pitch, but I`m hoping for close to 70 with the 4 banger as the prop I was using was for this powerhead, not the 3 cylinder.
fastdaddy55 posted 05-05-2009 01:32 AM ET (US)
I haven't got my boat back yet from being rigged with the 94 90 hp force, Does anyone think it will perform as well as the johnson 70 that it is replacing, it gave me 24 great years before giving up. The only reason I got the Force was because I needed something cheap @ quick. I just hope I get lucky @ it is a pretty decent engine. With the reduced hours that I'm working I needed a bargain & at 900.00 bucks including rigging I thought that it was a good deal plus a 30 day warranty. I've enjoyed everyone comments, good & bad. Thats the info that you need when you are working on something different, so keep 'em coming,& thanks to all!!!!
R T M posted 05-05-2009 07:17 AM ET (US)
If it runs for 30 days, it`ll probably run for ever. Use it a lot while under warranty to check for any quirks or problems. I wouldn`t hesitate doing what your doing. Get a manuel. You can work on it yourself, and they`re really simple to work on. Check out "Chrysler outboard" on e-bay. You will find a ton of spare parts cheap. My latest Chrysler 105 about 1975, I found laying in the dirt in the marine boneyard. $250. (I only used the powerhead) I found it only needed a fuel pump rebuild,(from e-bay) and carb cleaning. and it runs great in a barrel. Will test it on my raceboat next week.
rich/Binkie
Tohsgib posted 05-05-2009 12:13 PM ET (US)
For $900 that is a no brainer. I would however remove all delas and maybe paint it Yamaha grey to throw off any onlookers as to what brand it is ;)
R T M posted 05-05-2009 12:53 PM ET (US)
Nick is right, Chrysler/Force has to be one of the ugliest outboards ever designed. That may be part of their undeserved bad reputation. It`s like saying that...[simile removed].
Remove all the decals and paint the motor another color. Tell people it is an experimental model.
I threw the cover away on mine and let people guess what make engine it is. Most folks at the AOMCI meets know about outboards though, and ask me if its a Chrysler. Here is a picture of my racing Chrysler 3 cylinder, It hauls pretty good, but should really go with the 4 cyl, powerhead.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/AOMCImeetatTaveras.jpg
rich/Binkie
skred posted 05-05-2009 01:15 PM ET (US)
Fastdaddy25, My Force 90 was a '92, and it was marked "Force By Mercury" on the cowling. Solid as a rock, and plenty fast - as I mentioned above....
Tohsgib posted 05-05-2009 01:23 PM ET (US)
Binks...we once took a test run on my bud's 23 SeaCraft w/twin 130 Yamahas without the cowls. Picked up 2mph believe it or not.
No Respect posted 05-05-2009 02:05 PM ET (US)
I have to admit that I have had my eyes opened a bit on the subject of the Force/Crysler outboard.
A couple of years ago an old friend got what he thought was a great deal on a 19ft Bayliner center console. The boat came with its original Force 125. Well, The engine seemed to run good on the hose but the first time we took it out to the lake we made it just about a mile down the lake and we experienced a nasty metal on metal squeal followed by a dieing motor.
We pulled the cowl and the flywheel was stuck and hot to the touch. Not good. We got a tow back to the marina where we were able to twist the flywheel loose and restart the engine. The best we could manage was slow idle as any thing more would pop the breaker under the cowl. I was convinced the motor was junk. Well a couple of months later my buddy takes it to a local mechanic who tells him the stator tests bad. This still seemed to me to ignor the greater issue of the squealing metal sound I heard on the water that day but it is not my boat so I tell him to get a stator and I will do the installation for him. Well, I pulled the flywheel and find the the stator screws are all loose and one has backed out to the point that it had cut a deep groove in the underside of the flywheel. The screw sheared off and wedged itself between the stator and flywheel causing severe damage to the stator and stopping the motor cold. When I removed the stator I found that some hack had pinched one of the stator wires under the thing when installing. This lead to all the mounting screws coming loose and the chain reaction of failure. All of my concerns and questions about this particular motor had been explained by what I was seeing.
We installed a new stator, replaced the broken and loose screws, and cleaned up the wiring. The engine fired right up and ran well. Next day off to the lake and that 25 year old Force ran absolutly perfect. I was amazed.
That engine is still running great and is used weekly.
I had to change my mind.
The good news for my friend is that Fresno seems to be a treasure trove of parts for these as so many Bayliners were sold there.
It's just too bad that they are so dam ugly.
SJUAE posted 05-05-2009 03:40 PM ET (US)
I must confess I too once had a Bayliner 21ft Trophy with a Force 5 cylinder 150HP, back in the mid 80’s.
It was the first one in the UK and was featured in several fishing/boating magazines at the time.
Had it for 5 years, no problem and was due to upgrade to the newer Trophy with a Merc 175, but the exchange had gone bad with the dealer and took me another three years to get my money back.
However, I always said when I grow up I would get a Whaler :)
Regards
Steve
R T M posted 05-05-2009 03:47 PM ET (US)
(It's just too bad that they are so dam ugly]
True, but the ugliness can be disguised. The cover is gone
and the flywheel is covered by an aluminum shroud. Note the manual spark advance, lower left front. Start it with spark retarded, pull the spark advance rod which advances the distributor to full advance, squeeze the throttle and your gone, sort of, after you shift your weight forward to bring it up on plane.
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/race%20boat%20pictures/chryslerpowerhead.jpg
R T M posted 05-05-2009 03:50 PM ET (US)
OOPS!

http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/chryslerpowerhead.jpg
No Respect posted 05-06-2009 10:23 AM ET (US)
RTM,
That is just about the prettiest Force I have ever seen.
Is there a reason to run without a cowl or is it just to get rid of the square bucket on top?
Matt
Tohsgib posted 05-06-2009 11:46 AM ET (US)
Actually I always thought the Chrysler was a great and classy looking engine with the white and gold stripe. The newer beige and later US marine & force engines were butt-ass ugly.
Salty Tricks posted 05-06-2009 02:45 PM ET (US)
Wanted a chance to clarify some misconceptions...
SJUAE "I must confess I too once had a Bayliner 21ft Trophy with a Force 5 cylinder 150HP, back in the mid 80’s."
-I think the first year for the 150 was 1989...basically tacked on a 5th cylinder to the 4 banger 125HP
Tohsgib "The newer beige and later US marine & force engines were butt-ass ugly."
-Actually the first version of Force motors were Chrysler cowlings painted white with blue and red trim....personally I thought they were sharp.
The graphics on the dark blue Force (eg F-150) that I show on my Trophy above (I removed the decal graphics!) was indeed ugly. But the shape of the cowling was quite similar to the Mercury Opti's or Offshore models.....and I believe, though not certain, they predated Mercury's abandoning the clamshell version!
The Force motors packaged on the Bayliners early on were painted a different color (dark blue) than those offered on other boats or as loose engines (grey). When Merc took over they were all the same color
Too add.....I am not certain that Mercury's update to the Force had anything to do with more dependability but rather to keep the tooling down to a minimum and cross- utilize parts that were already on their Mercs.
I know I am guilty but maybe it's time to bring this back to a Whaler forum?
R T M posted 05-06-2009 03:08 PM ET (US)
I know I am guilty but maybe it's time to bring this back to a Whaler forum?
Why? There are of of threads about different makes of outboards. This is the first one I`ve seen here about Chrysler/Force. Besides it`s an inexpensive way to power a Whaler. Just need to find a well kept one from the upper Midwest.
rich/Binkie
GSG416 posted 05-06-2009 04:46 PM ET (US)
I have a 1998 Force 120 on a 24 FT. Fisher pontoon boat. I bought the boat from the original owner in 2004. The motor has preformed flawlessly as long as I have had it.
Salty Tricks posted 05-07-2009 06:50 AM ET (US)
You're right RTM. I was apologizing for my meandering off about Bayliner as well.
SJUAE posted 05-07-2009 02:05 PM ET (US)
Salty Tricks
I stand corrected, late 80's.
I thought it was over 20 years back not 19, maybe I'm younger than I thought :)
Regards
Steve
rocky1953 posted 06-11-2009 10:44 PM ET (US)
Ok, so many of you aren't too keen on the Force outboard. I have a 1992 5 hp that I have had excellant luck with. I need to sell it though because my boating days are pretty much over. Any idea oin what would be a good asking price?
springer106 posted 06-12-2009 02:22 PM ET (US)
Dratts. I just inherited a 1989 bayliner capris 14ft. with force 50. Hasn't been run in 7 years. Darn thing turns over by hand SMOOTH. I live by ST. Johns river in florida. Is this boat worth putting time and a few bucks into or should I just scrap it?
skred posted 06-12-2009 09:08 PM ET (US)
I had the same boat and motor combination - 1989 Capri 14 with 50 Force. Ran it tinto a thick weedbed, and later - didn't notice the weeds over the water intake. Steam and black smoke were the first hints it was overheated. I cleared the weeds, ran it 1 mile back to the dock, uncovered the engine to let it cool. 1 hour later you could still fry an egg on the cylinder block, but it cranked right up and purred. I ran that Force for another 2 years without a hitch, and the guy I sold it to in 2003 is still running it!
Considering I sold it in '03 for $2100 bucks - it was a pretty good little boat! I'd put a bit of money into yours and enjoy it. It's a little underpowered: top speed with 2 aboard was about 25-28 mph, but adequate. And - it handled the chop pretty well...
springer106 posted 06-19-2009 04:09 PM ET (US)
Thanx. Had it out on river last weekend. ran great! keeper i guess. regards.
R T M posted 06-20-2009 05:42 PM ET (US)
I never heard a bad thing about Chrysler outboards, other than some overheating problems and occasionally a bad CD unit. I think the bad reputation came from putting them on Bayliners with inexperienced owners who did no maintenance. I got my 105 powerhead up to 63 today on the race boat, I had some prop work done, but the manual advance distributor is still giving me problems.
rich/Binkie
hollywood75 posted 07-14-2009 03:04 PM ET (US)
[I] have 1990 [Bayliner] 90-HP [FORCE] inboard L-drive. [Asked for a judgement on the degree of difficulty to perform certain routine maintenance on a FORCE L-drive. Please use the REPAIRS/MODS discussion to initiate a discussion about repairs to outboard motors. Repairs to inboard motors is not a topic which is within the usual realm of discussion here. Thank you--jimh]
jimh posted 07-14-2009 08:22 PM ET (US)
I did not know that FORCE made inboard motors with an L-drive. Please tell us more about them.
number9 posted 07-15-2009 05:07 AM ET (US)
A blast from the past. Some info for those who don't know, http://www.rbbi.com/white/drives/drives.htm
Ridge Runner posted 07-15-2009 03:30 PM ET (US)
Photo's of L-Drive http://www.flickr.com/photos/cfanto/sets/72157607000989197/show/with/ 2806092763/
project13 posted 07-17-2009 04:16 PM ET (US)
This is a great thread. Who says they were ugly. Nothing is more indicative of the late 80's early 90's than the neon blue "force" in that "high tech" font.
I can understand the endearing memories of Force, but how can you guys try and tell us that your bayliner, with its steel stringers, were "the best boat I ever owned." I know many of you don't boat in the salt, but when I used to live on a boat in the '90's I remember a bayliner that sunk in the marina one night. Turned out that the steel stringers rotted from the inside out and the hull gave way...
Now that's quality.
xntric1 posted 07-19-2009 04:14 PM ET (US)
I just acquired a 14-foot Bayliner with a FORCE 50-HP but have no idea of the year of the motor. Tell me where on the motor I would find some information or serial number to decipher.
jimh posted 07-19-2009 04:24 PM ET (US)
After you find the serial number, please give us the information you will use to interpret the model year from the number.
R T M posted 07-20-2009 12:43 AM ET (US)
There is a metal tag on the front inside of the lower pan with all of the info on it. At least in the 3 and 4 cylinder motors. Is the 50 hp a two cylinder?
rich/Binkie
Salty Tricks posted 07-20-2009 07:31 AM ET (US)
Steel Stringers??? I've never seen such a thing!
Someone's pulling my leg...right?
My 89 has wood just like any other boat of the era.
Salty Tricks posted 07-20-2009 07:41 AM ET (US)
Hey Project13
I am celebrating my 20th year of Salty Tricks in Saltwater. This boat is left in all season...not trailered. Never had a gelcoat blister. Wish I can say the same for my Montauk... :(
project13 posted 07-20-2009 02:26 PM ET (US)
I am just repeating what I was told. I would love to have someone refute it definitively.
springer106 posted 07-23-2009 08:53 AM ET (US)
K. i have put about 50-to-60 hours on my 1989 Capri 15FT. 50hp force since given to me. Runs great! noisey though. replaced front flooring and some electrics. rear floor is getting soft so that will be next. Idles well for extended periods and stays on plane at 3/4 throttle. Engine bogs down at 1/2 throttle and kicks a bit when going to w.o.t. but i hear this is normal with this carb setup. Plugs look good. checked stringers etc. when replacing floor and all is solid in the bilge. this boat has always been garage kept as do I. Very handy. A bigger boat would be nice but then storage would become a problem. I would like to replace the force (but still keep it) with a used 75HP evenrude/merc or similar but most of the ones i come accross are attatched to boats. Anyone out there got a good used one for sale? Well...safe boating everyone and watch out for motor cycles, they are everywhere.
Whaler_bob posted 07-23-2009 11:07 AM ET (US)

quote:
project13....how can you guys try and tell us that your bayliner, with its steel stringers, were "the best boat I ever owned."

You have to consider that a Bayliner may have the first boat owned by a newcomer to boating or maybe it was the first factory brand new boat bought after many used wrecks owned by other boaters.
In the case of one particular in-law, he owned quite a few $200-$300 used 15' to 17' junkers from the 70's. When they didn't start any longer- they ended up in the dump and he went out and found another one for $200-$300. A few years back. someone owed him money for a car repair and couldn't pay for it- so he signed over his 4 year old 17' Bayliner over to my in-law. When you consider his previous "boats" the new(ish) Bayliner was like a luxury yacht with a decent trailer, and properly running 4 year old Force 90hp engine. Many times he told us- "it's the best boat I ever owned" and it was.... compared to the $200-$300 rigs he was used to- that Bayliner was a gem.
He now owns a new Grady, and we still sometimes kid him about the Bayliner- funny thing is- he acknowledges that there's no comparison between his $40K+ 19' Grady and the Bayliner, but he still insists it was a good boat.
tplumlee posted 08-21-2009 07:33 PM ET (US)
Hi all. [I] just wanted to say great discussion to you all[.] {I] ran across this forum while I was searching for information on Force outboards, I know it sounds funny but I have an [1989] [unclear] 150 on an [1982] Champion Bass boat. I bought it that way [two months] ago, and the motor seems to run great. Compression tested at 150 to 152[-PSI] across the board. [I am] looking for ideas on proper setup don't quite have the speed I was expecting from this outfit. [It appears to me that] my propeller is [too] deep for the type of boat [it is] on. Thanks for sharing and keep it up.
R T M posted 08-22-2009 06:59 AM ET (US)
Do you have a tachometer? Should be running about 5,500 to 5,80o-RPM. Check to see if the motor is mounted to low. The cavitation plate should be higher by 3/4" to 1" than the bottom of the boat when the motor is in a vertical position. When you are running at speed the cavitation plate should be at water surface level to slightly above.
rich/Binkie
springer106 posted 11-11-2009 08:27 AM ET (US)
OK. I have been running my Force 50 every weekend for almost six months. I have not had a single problem--knock on fiberglass. [The FORCE motor] idles for [hours] without a hiccup and [WOT] is [unclear]. [At half-throttle] [the FORCE motor] burps a lot but that is inherent to the carburetor set up.
Tinman posted 12-21-2009 04:06 PM ET (US)
WOW!!!!
You guys have really taken me back to a better time. Traveling the mid-west with my dad and his race boat. We would pull in to some little town on Friday morning get a hotel room and go check out the competition. I don’t know how many Chrysler power heads we rebuilt in our rooms that summer but man what a blast. We had just come over from Cuba and the old loved nothing more than to out run the locals with their big name Mercs. We didn't speak much English but that didn’t stop us from have a good time. The people were always nice to us until we made them look stupid then they didn’t like us much, we even had to deal with some who gave us a hard time because of my dad’s English skills but hey that’s America right? You got to love her. Anyway we never had troubles with those Chrysler outboards though my friends made fun of them (they just were not cool) with their white paint and all. We later had Chryslers on our pleasure boats and never had an issue. My first boat as an adult was a Bayliner Force CC with a Force outboard. I kept that boat for 10 years till my ex-wife set it on fire (that another story) we ran it to Bimini all the time without fail. Good times. Mom and dad are gone now and I’m not young anymore but I have the memories. My kids have a 20Ft Princecraft to play with when they are home from college. So I say thnx to all of you and keep this 5 year old thread going. PS funny how the world turns Whalers and Bayliners are all owned by the same company now. Who would of thunk it?
R T M posted 12-21-2009 05:05 PM ET (US)
Tinman, those were great stories. I agree Chryslers were/are great engines. I would like to see someone put a 55hp Chrysler on a 13 footer. Its the lightest 2 stroke over 40 hp around at 150lbs. and makes more power than most 65's.
Here is a pic of my 105 Chrysler race motor
http://i27.photobucket.com/albums/c191/floridaboy2053/ race%20boat%20pictures/chry2.jpg
rich/Binkie
high sierra posted 12-21-2009 05:25 PM ET (US)
Tinman, nice stories. Amazing how the times when you had so little , mean so much now. Brings back nice memories. high sierra
number9 posted 12-21-2009 08:10 PM ET (US)
Having owned and enjoyed a Chrysler outboard for many years I feel CW has helped malign their reputation by using Force in the topic title.
Tinman posted 12-21-2009 10:22 PM ET (US)
Funny thing is when I was young I thought that these motors were actually built by Chrysler motor company. Thats why my friends made fun of them. About three years ago we came across a 1972 Boston Whaler for $500 it came with a 25HP Rude motor. Well we did not have the thing 6 months and my 15 year old son came home with an idea to put my buddys 25HP Rude on the Whaler and run twins. Well my wife was not happy about it but what the hell we were soon building a tube mount for both motors and running the cables around to the side counsel. That boat was a blast at 55 the air would get under it and it got light in steering and walked when you tried to change direction but we had a blast. The seat was hard on the back and we mounted some Garlink seat with better support. Well everything was just great untill the local PD stopped us going way too fast in the
inter-coastal and we could never seem to run the boat around Hollywood Fl. again. My kids younger son and older daughter painted my dads old livery colors and name on the side "LA CUBANA" ("The Cuban" female)on the side, boats are always female right? Well we took one of the Evenrudes off and sold the thing to a very nice young lady. She painted the boat within the week. Any way great site and I keep it on subject Whalers right in the future. Happy Holidays everyone.....
number9 posted 12-21-2009 11:37 PM ET (US)
The Chrysler OBs were built by Chrysler Corp. when it was more diversified.
R T M posted 12-22-2009 05:19 AM ET (US)
Here is some history on Chrysler outboards.
http://www.chryslercrew.com/
rich/Binkie
R T M posted 12-22-2009 05:25 AM ET (US)
Sorry, above post has wrong link;
http://www.hurrikain.com/thechryslercrew/history.htm
Whalerdog posted 12-22-2009 07:20 AM ET (US)
Chryslers worst motor was the 1968 two cylinder 55 hp. It kept getting salt water on the plugs and fouling them out in an hour or two. They came up with a fix some type of plate. I dumped the motor and got a 1968 55 3 cylinder Evinrude and the boat was 10 mph faster. To bad that was stolen. Akk in alll they were not bad I was 15 when I worked at a dealership. I enjoyed going to the races with the owner Jack Gossman. The 125 with staks was a cool motor. May be RTM has some pictures?
skred posted 12-22-2009 11:12 AM ET (US)
I lived about 5 miles from the original Chrysler plant in Hartford, WI. I recall the name on the plant changing to "U.S. Marine" for a time. I thought they still produced outboards there, but don't know for sure. I never saw an outboard with US Marine on the cowl...
R T M posted 12-22-2009 11:58 AM ET (US)
Here is a pic of a 135hp Chrysler "stacker", not mine,
http://rides.webshots.com/photo/2613363440091848696JDJQQX
Mine is in the photo on my post about nine posts up. Its a 105 w/o the stacks. The 105's didn`t use them although they would fit. Seen some on e-bay from time to time for about 1k, that's why I don`t have them.
rich/Binkie
Whalerdog posted 12-22-2009 03:43 PM ET (US)
Thanks Rich I think that was a later model cowling looks different with the decal Chrysler Crew. They were so loud!
I loved the local OPC races. May be it made me spend a fortune racing offshore for years.
brisboats posted 12-22-2009 04:38 PM ET (US)
I would have to second the 55 hp Chrysler twin being a rather lousy performer. Maybe I had a bad example but I ran one on a 15' Wenzel and the boat was a poor performer until we replaced it with an OMC triple. The Chrysler could not run with an OMC big twin in my opinion. I had a 1996 Force by Mercury 40 hp a later derivative of the 55 hp twin that always ran fine but I never could get past the motor's acoustics. It just sounded like it was going to come violently apart at over 4000 rpms. Not bashing the Chrysler/Force line, they are what they are and they certainly have gotten many on the water that otherwise would be fishing from the shore. It is great to read good things about these motors and real life experiences as most websites have posters that simply write them off as throw aways.
I stand by my earlier posting that the motors were much better when Mercury added their electronics, lower units and trim systems in the mid 1990's. Those systems seem to be the weak links in the earlier motors.
Brian
R T M posted 12-22-2009 05:27 PM ET (US)
I might have assumed too much for the 55 Chrysler. I remember back in the mid-late sixties the Chrysler 35 dominated the 36 cu in class of stock outboard racing. The competition were 30 and 35 hp. 36 cu in OMCs from the fifties, and they weren`t competitive anymore after a few started running the Chrysler. Sorry I shouldn't have assumed the 55 would be a good motor also. The OMC triples could always outperform any stock twin cylinder.
My cousin's son ran OPC in the 1980's in the NE and my cousin was the "sponsor", cost him a fortune. I was a co-driver in the 1959 Around Long Island Marathon. I worked for Al Grover's Marine Base in Freeport LI. He sold Thompson boats and Evinrudes, and we ran a 17 Thompson with V4 Evinrude. Finished near last, George, part Marina owner and co driver cracked some ribs rounding Montauk. It was alot of fun, and nothing like offshore racing is today, but that race was the beginning of it all. Al Grover invented the concept, but in a couple of years real racers, and real raceboats took over.
rich/Binkie
number9 posted 12-22-2009 06:43 PM ET (US)
Remember seeing some of the U.S. Marine motors prior to the Forces, identical to the Chrysler with white cowling and some striping.
cohasett73 posted 12-23-2009 11:13 AM ET (US)
Sorry to say skred, there are no outboards built in Hartford,WI anymore. The house I live in now was built by a Toolmaker that worked for the Chrysler/Force plant.
When work dried up he went to Merc in Fondy. I see a few Chryslers around. I have kicked around the idea of powering my '73'Cohasset with one instead of the '66' Homelite I run now.
Tom fro Rubicon,WI
R T M posted 12-23-2009 01:26 PM ET (US)
Tom, you can`t go wrong, you can buy a cherry 3 or 4 cylinder Chrysler for 4-7 hundred with controls. They are simple engines and super easy to work on, and can take a beating. I run my 105 at 6500-6800rpm(1000rpm over max) on my race boat with no ill effects. parts and whole powerheads are cheap. Probably the most underrated outboard ever built. Most were sold on Bayliners to new boaters who didn`t maintain them. The ones that were maintained are the survivors, and still running strong, and the rest are your cheap spare parts. The weak part of these motors is the CD unit (Magnapower) I think Chrysler was the first to use CD ignition. They can be expensive to replace with new, but used are inexpensive on E-Bay. You can also get rid of the CD units on I think up to '75 engines and have battery ignition. Just add a condenser to the distributor, a 12 volt coil, and move a couple or three wires around and your ready to go. I did this with my 75 3 cylinder powerhead. Instructions come from the Chrysler forum.
rich/Binkie
cohasett73 posted 12-24-2009 08:27 AM ET (US)
RTM,
Thanks for the encouragement.
Those Chrysler CD's can't be too bad. The guy I bought my Homelite from thought good enough of them to put one on it.
He even used a Chrysler TnT engine mount on the Homelite as the original Homelite/Bearcat was a rather primative POS.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
jimq posted 01-30-2010 01:27 PM ET (US)
I have a 1990 15hp Sears Gamefisher (Force) motor. I broke the tiller mount on the motor and cant find a used one any where. Its the same as on a 1990 Force motor. Does anybody know a boneyard that sells old Force parts or have a broken 9.9 or 15 hp one laying in pieces in the back yard? After reading this thread there should be plenty of old broken Force motors laying around somewhere!
R T M posted 01-30-2010 02:51 PM ET (US)
jimq, If you get over to the St. Pete, Clearwater area check out Don`s Marine Salvage. He has a field full of old outboards, lots of Chryslers. I don`t know if he can actually help you over the phone, he has so much stuff he can`t possibly catalog it all. Its worth the trip, bring lunch. Also you need to haggle with the price, only deal with the boss.
http://www.donsmarinesalvage.net/
rich/Binkie
jimq posted 01-30-2010 03:21 PM ET (US)
Thanks! I think I found one over at Merrit Island. If not I will give them a call!
bayliner87 posted 04-11-2010 12:56 AM ET (US)
[Reported on his success at angling and on the local current weather, but did not add information on the history of the FORCE outboard motor.]
bayliner posted 05-01-2010 12:19 PM ET (US)
[Revived this older discussion, now in its fifth year, on the history of FORCE outboard motors, but, unfortunately, had nothing to contribute to the history of FORCE outboard motors. Instead, he changed the topic of discussion to solicit advice on how to make repairs to an outboard motor. Please use the REPAIRS/MODS discusison to begin a discussion on how to make repairs to an outboard motor--jimh]
rslyk posted 12-30-2010 11:42 AM ET (US)
I worked in [a Mercury] dealership 1963 to 1969, a [Chrysler] dealership [from] 1968 to 1970, the [Bayliner] factory [from] 1970 to 1971, a [Bayliner, Mercury , OMC, Mercruiser, and Volvo-Penta dealership] from 1972 to 1981, [and] owned a [Bayliner] dealership [from] 1983 to 1990. [I] retired to country farmer in 1991. If anyone wants a discussion on [Chrysler and Force outboard motors] I think I can participate from an insider's perspective.
jimh posted 12-30-2010 04:28 PM ET (US)
This thread has 120 replies and has been active for five years or more, and by that measure I believe there is interest in the topic--the history of FORCE outboards.
It is not necessary to inquire if anyone is interested in this topic, because this thread is evidence of interest in the topic. If anyone has information about the history of FORCE outboards, they need simply to contribute it to the discussion. Thank you.
Paul Holicek Jr posted 01-25-2011 10:01 PM ET (US)
My first job out of college was as a manufacturing engineer for Chrysler Outboard in Hartford, Wisconsin. Chrysler had bought the manufacturing facility for outboard motors from West Bend Aluminum in West Bend, Wisconsin, a manufacturer of aluminum household appliances. As you drove in the main drive there was a 1/8-mile-long kart track to the right, the old office building to the left, and the new building straight ahead. Chrysler made 6.1-cubic-inch and 8.2-cubic-inch engines for the karting market along with two- and four-cylinder Mil-Spec engines in Beaver Dam, Wisconsin. Chrysler also bought the old Lone Star Boat Company in Plaino, Texas. Most of the testing was done on Lake Sinissippi in Hustisford, but, occasionally, [testing] would be done in Florida during the winter. I can still hear the engines running wide open in the test tanks along side of the building, especially the 135's. I left just as Force was comming into the picture and my supervisor had left for Mercury. We knew we weren't top-dog, but it was a good place to work and fun chasing the big guys.
cohasett73 posted 01-26-2011 08:30 AM ET (US)
Paul--Thanks for the additional history. Where exactly in Hartford was the Chrysler plant?
"Most of the testing was done on Lake Sinissippi in Hustisford."
I wonder if to this day it is why there is no speed limit on Sinissippi? The guy who built the house I live in was a Toolmaker at Chrysler and Force before he went to work at Mercury.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Binkster posted 01-28-2011 11:46 PM ET (US)
Paul, can you give us some history on the Chrysler Stacker racing outboards. I had one for five years and recently sold it.
Paul Holicek Jr posted 02-05-2011 05:39 PM ET (US)
Thanks guys. To this day I still wonder why Chrysler wanted to get into the marine business. All of the major decisions came from Detroit, and, when we took on the military contracts in 1970 for small engines, it really hurt our marine engine development and strained all of our resources. The plant was and is just north of Sumner St. and west of Willowbrook Park now occupied by Steel Craft, Inc. Ralph Hegy was the tool room foreman when I was there, and the only other toolmaker I remember was a fellow named Ed. Working in manufacturing we did not have access to the R&D offices which were locked, so we found out everything after the fact. I can't give you any history on the Stacker Program. I can, however, tell you what they sound like when they sieze at max RPM. LOL I'd be happy to answer any more questions. Thanks,
Paul
cohasett73 posted 02-06-2011 09:08 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the come back Paul.
Tom from Rubicon,WI
Binkster posted 02-06-2011 10:39 AM ET (US)
Thanks again Paul. What I like about Chrysler outboards from a standpoint of an amateur mechanic is the simplicity and ease of working on them. Also the avaiability of used spare parts as the marine boneyards are full of them.
christrickle posted 03-23-2011 08:30 PM ET (US)
Would anybody have a pdf of a 1998 force 40hp wiring diagram? trying to rig one to my 13 whaler and i am stumped.
cohasett73 posted 03-24-2011 06:43 AM ET (US)
http://forums.iboats.com/showthread.php?t=218637
300hb posted 05-05-2011 10:38 PM ET (US)
Hi Paul, How much exposure did you have to the 300 I/O drive and why don't you think US Marine continued it ?....Thanks
jack
2thdoc posted 07-02-2013 07:08 AM ET (US)

I have owned a '93 Force 120 on a Bayliner Capri for 9 yrs. I purchased it for a song from an elderly gentleman who bought it new in '94. The boat had been always properly winterized and stored and he was upfront that it was a Force but that he'd added Mercury decals after he'd become weary of prejudiced dumbheaded boaters ribbing him till it got real old. This 120 has NEVER let me down over hundreds and hundreds of hours on the lake.I feel that meticulous annual maintenance ifs the key. It starts every time and runs faultlessly. And , to the arrogant knowall snobs above : I've never once driven a Corvair, NOR have had a single leisure suit in my wardrobe.
Hilinercc posted 07-03-2013 09:24 AM ET (US)
I had a 16' Lyman wooden lapstrake with a 1962 40 Johnson in high school. A friend of my Dad's has a 16' fiberglass Winner tri hull with a 55 Chrysler, which was alot younger than my old 40.
We raced one day, and both boats ran neck and neck, neither one of us could pull ahead, the boats just sat there next to each other going wide open. I was certainly surprized because I though at 55 hp, the old Walter would eat my lunch, but it didn't.
On the other hand, we had a guy at our yacht club who had a new 75 hp Chrysler in a little 16' Sea Star runabout. That was the scariest boat I'd ever been in. At WOT, the boat flew but it also started to come apart(!), it was scary fast and the engine looked 2 sizes too big for the boat.
I had alot of respect for Chrysler OB's after that. I've always loved their legendary inboards.

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