posted 05-28-2006 11:37 AM ET (US)            

For each dollar per gallon of savings on the price of XD-100, the effect is to reduce the fuel cost by 1/100-th dollar, or one cent. Given the $3-gallon cost for fuel, a change in the fuel cost of $0.01 is a change in percentage of the fuel price by (0.01)/3 = 0.3 percent. So every dollar saved on a gallon of XD-100 oil reduces your fuel bill by 0.3-percent.

posted 05-28-2006 04:14 PM ET (US)            

I would buy a large quantity of oil if the price reduction was reasonable. Oil does not go bad...... It does however, get more expensive with inflation.

posted 05-29-2006 09:34 AM ET (US)            

Last season I used 508-gallons of gasoline. We were underway for about 63 hours. If using XD-100 oil, this would imply using about 5-gallons of the oil, or about $150 in oil expense. If I buy the oil in bulk from a retailer I can re-use the same container for each oil purchase. This avoids creating trash in the form of oil-contaminated containers. My labor consists of pouring it into a reservoir as needed.

What happens to the oil I am using in terms of environmental impact? Here I assume I am burning it in an emission compliant outboard motor, such as an E-TEC, so the oil is totally combusted and enters the environment mainly as water and carbon dioxide. Any hydrocarbons or other combustion emissions are within the EPA limits.

If my motor were a four-stroke motor, it would have required one oil change if following the 100-hour interval. If following a shorter interval, at least one oil change and possibly two. Because the engine is laid up for a long storage period over the winter, it is generally recommended that the oil be changed before storage so as to eliminated the contaminated oil from the sump before storage. Each oil change would require six quarts of oil and a new filter. If using the same OEM branded and priced products, I estimate the cost of the oil change to be

6-quarts X $5 = $30
1-filter X $20 = $20
TOTAL = $50

There is some labor involved in performing the oil change. Let's accumulate the labor time and worry about the labor costs later. We figure the labor at one hour.

We now have to dispose 6-quarts of contaminated oil. This represents something of a problem. In most cases one cannot just throw contaminated oil out with the trash. You have to take it to a collection center. I am fortunate to have a collection center about five miles away. This is a ten mile round trip. According to the federal government, this will represent about a $4 expense for my transportation. This takes about 30 minutes of labor time

Unfortunately, the collection center only accepts the contaminated oil. It does not accept containers. Now I have a new problem. I have at least one and possible more containers which are contaminated with oil. I have a couple of choices to make.

One option is to retain the contaminated containers for eventual re-use at the next oil change. Another option is to throw the contaminated containers out with my trash, burying them in some other garbage where they will not likely be found. The arrangement of trash collection services provided by my municipality does not include the collection of oil contaminated containers. However, my experience is that you can throw them out in the trash and they will be accepted for disposal if not discovered. This is an unethical way of transferring the burden of the cost of the disposal of the contaminated container unto another person or entity.

I also have the oil rags and other trash resulting from the oil change. Again, to dispose of these I probably would have to travel to some collection facility or throw them out in the trash.

I also have a used oil filter contaminated with dirty oil. As far as I can tell, this is a very difficult item to dispose of legally. Again, one option is to throw it out with the trash and transfer the burden of its disposal to another person or entity.

What happens to the dirty oil taken in at the collection center? Most of it will be re-used for combustion in industrial furnances. The combustion products will again enter the environment. It is not clear to me if the combustion process is as clean as that performed by an emission compliant outboard motor.

Also, I am not aware of any vendor who sells four-stroke oil in bulk. Thus every time I purchase four-stroke oil I have a new problem with oil contaminated containers. Again, I have to decide if I should transport and pay for the proper disposal of these myself, or just throw them out in my trash and transfer the cost of the disposal onto another entity.

Thus, each four-stroke oil changes cost about $54 and requires about 1.5 hours of my labor. There are other costs associated with the disposal of the oil contaminated trash that each oil change produces, but it is hard to quantify them. One way to avoid these disposal costs is to hire a mechanigc and service agency to perform the work. This will shift the problem of the disposal of the oil and contaminated materials to them, and they will include the costs in their charges. We have at least one hour of labor, and let's figure it will be about $75. This also makes a better comparison to the cost of the two-stroke oil as we do not have to perform this labor in the case of the two-stroke motor. Thus we see that the true cost of a four-stroke engine operated about the same amount of time is now $75 + $40 = $125. This is only $25 less than the cost of the two-stroke oil.

Further, when the oil is being changed on the motor, the boat is not available for use. This imposes a cost in terms of lost opportunity. How much is 1.5 hours of prime boating time worth? I think it is certainly worth $25 (the remaining difference in costs). Also, to transport the boat to a mechanic may involve other costs, such as highway towing, ramp fees, towing vehicle mileage, and towing vehicle fuel, oil, and depreciation. These costs are all likely to total at least $25. This brings the cost comparison to at least equal cost between the two-stroke and four-stroke engine lubrication costs.

posted 05-29-2006 01:21 PM ET (US)            

Where did you come up with the prices for a 4 stroke oil change?

The Mercury filter for my 60 4 stroke is $9.90
25W40 4 stroke oil is 2.99 a quart. These prices are full retail, not what I buy them for.

Max time to make the change is 30 minutes {that is free as I work cheap}
The empty oil bottles go in the garbage.
The old oil I dump in the container for our furnace at the marina where I work {again free} it's only 3 quarts so I wouldn't have a problem dumping it on the back lot if I had to.

Now if we did the oil change at the marina there would be an hours labor at $95.00.

Dick

posted 05-29-2006 01:36 PM ET (US)            

As I mention, disposal of empty CLEAN oil bottles in the garbage may be available, but it depends on the municipality. Disposal of used oil by pouring it onto the ground is one method, but I don't think you can find many authorities that would sanction it. Disposal of dirty oil containers may also be more of a problem. You should call up your local municipality and ask them if they have a problem with accepting plastic containers filled with used motor oil. If they are willing to accept them, I bet you could act as a disposal point for many people whose local cities and towns will not accept waste materials like that.

There is no doubt it is possible to avoid some of the costs of disposal, but that does not reduce the actual costs that eventually have to be paid. Soil soaked with contaminated motor oil and landfills full of plastic bottles of used motor oil will eventually present a bill to someone which will have to be paid.

posted 05-29-2006 02:18 PM ET (US)            

There are probably more 2 stroke oil bottles in the land fills than 4 stroke. That's probably not true when you consider the amount of bottles that go in from car oil changes.

I don't advocate dumping your used oil in the back yard, only as a last resort. Most auto parts stores will accept the used oil if you don't have a marina that will.

I did not suggest puting bottles filled with used oil in the trash, only the empty ones.

posted 05-29-2006 07:54 PM ET (US)            

Looking back at the thread, the title is not mine nor is the opening statement/question mine. At the very least, you should add a note indicating the changes.

Left as it is, you are putting words in my mouth.

posted 05-30-2006 01:11 AM ET (US)            

Considering the cost of driving long distances to get lower oil prices or the expense of having it shipped, it is probably much more effective for you to just call a couple of your local marine outlets on the telephone and ask them what they are charging if you want to find a local source that has a better price.

As a general topic, discussions of where to find the best price of a $30 item are not of great interest, and the website makes no attempt to collect, organize, and archive information about best-deal pricing. This applies even to $15,000 items like outboard motors.

You will just have to tolerate these situations.

Personally I use FROOGLE to find good prices. And people sometimes mention particularly great bargins. But we generally don't consider it to be compelling content to hash out who can save you a buck on a gallon of oil without it costing you more in time and expense to actually go buy it.

posted 06-01-2006 09:48 PM ET (US)            

"Oil filters for my 2004 YamaMerc 225 EFI four-strokes are over $30 from Mercury and only a dollar or two cheaper from Yamaha."

(Cf.: http://continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum8/HTML/001712.html)

posted 06-02-2006 10:53 AM ET (US)            

My local authorized service center has XD-100. He does not sell (new) Evinrude or Johnson motors.

I can also get it at another chandlery in town, but they actually sell the motors as well.

I can get it for $36 in the originall gallon jug and about $28 in bulk.

posted 06-02-2006 12:11 PM ET (US)            

There would have to be an MSDS so that leaves me thinking that it is under a different name.

Mobile 1???? JKOC.....

posted 06-03-2006 04:28 AM ET (US)            

Anyone who sells it, stores it or transports it should have an MSDS on file for it. It would be interesting to compare the contents with XD-50 or another brand of oil.

Perry,

The MSDS forms do not list all the ingredients of a product, especially if they are propriatary.

posted 06-03-2006 11:47 AM ET (US)            

I buy XD50 from the local, family run Evinrude/Johnson dealer in bulk.

posted 06-05-2006 11:59 AM ET (US)            

Buy two gallons at a time.

I now have about 350 miles of use on my motors. When I bought the motors, I added about 1 3/4 gallons of oil to fill the tanks from empty. I then refilled the containers and have added about 1/4 gallon to top off the tanks on the motors. The level is still very high. If you keep this oil on hand, you would need to put a lot of use on that motor to get really concerned about your supply at home.