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Author Topic:   Outrage Fuel Tank Check Valve

Roy posted 04-27-2000 10:59 AM ET (US)
How do I eliminate the check valve or back flow valve on my 1992 Outrage 17 internal fuel tank? I suspect that it is prevening my primer bulb from staying full. Also, it takes a lot of squeezing to get the fuel through the water separator to the engine. (This is a new bulb).
Clark Roberts posted 04-28-2000 08:00 AM ET (US)
Roy, first you have to find the damn thing!
Usually it is integral to the barb fitting exiting the tank. Find this fitting and remove and inspect it to see if there is a little spring loaded ball/valve cleverly hidden inside!!! If so, simply get a barb fitting to match (one that has no check valve built in) and replace!!! Problem solved. THose little devils have ruined a lot of engines is my guess, by starving them for fuel. Also they cause squeeze balls to get cardiac arrest, collapse, etc! Let us know if you find it! Good luck and Happy Whalin'..... Clark...Spruce Creek Navy
Roy posted 04-28-2000 11:00 AM ET (US)
Clark,
Found the bugger. Will remove and let you know how it works out. Thanks, Roy
Walt Steffens posted 05-02-2000 03:24 PM ET (US)
Clark: I have followed your thought string on the check valve subject through several forums; and you seem to be very knowldgeable on the subject. Why are they there, are they in all Whalers with internal tanks (open & cabin) what purpose are they suppose to serve and why should you want to remove them?
bigz posted 05-03-2000 09:30 AM ET (US)
Prime reason is to prevent back flow siphoning of water plus any debris which had been filtered out by the external fuel filter back into the tank!
Better place to install it would be on the inflow side of the fuel filter, easily accessible if there should be a problem.
Just my two cents worth!
Regards,
Thomas
Clark Roberts posted 05-03-2000 10:50 AM ET (US)
Walt, I agree with BigZ! Reason for removal is that it takes too much suction to overcome the spring-loaded ball valve! Fuel flow can be restricted and at WOT (timing fully advanced) a lean mixture can burn a piston or two... an in-line squeeze ball provides a check-valve.... just be careful if squeeze ball is removed as gas can siphon out of tank if open fuel line is positioned below gas level in tank!!!! Happy Whalin'... Clark
Roy posted 05-04-2000 11:11 AM ET (US)
Update on check valve removal:
Clark, Removed the fitting and guess what? - No spring and ball check valve. Found a generic barb fitting that was clear through & through. Now, I bought my boat used but the paint on the barbed fitting was the same grey that matched the tank fitting as you'd expect out of the factory. And, the notice I got from service@whaler.com says that a check valve is installed on all Whaler tanks. Go figure. Well, I'm happy I know what I have and will fish and cruise with more confidence.
Thanks again Clark & BigZ's two cents.
Walt Steffens posted 05-04-2000 04:50 PM ET (US)
Ok guys I have followed so far, and I would agree that the check valve in the primer ball would serve the same purpose. My Revenge has twins and as far as I can remember two lines (copper) exiting the tank cavity under the cockpit sole. They change to neoperne in the bait well and are routed into the starboard sponson hull and then to a pair of bulkhead fittings in the transome area side liner. At this point they stay neoprene thru the water seperators & primer balls into the engines. Question: in your experience did the factory use a manifold or two pickups in the top of the tank? Will I have to remove the cockpit floor panel to get to the pickups? I plan to pursue this as I can remember having trouble priming one or both the engines after a long non use period. This would indicate to me that the check ball is plastic and sticking in the seat. Thanks for the heads up on this problem!
Roy posted 05-07-2000 08:55 PM ET (US)
The following is what I received from Whaler. Interesting?
Roy,
The check-valve is used to prevent fuel from escaping in the event that the
boat flips over, or if the line gets cut/disconnected. NMMA
regulations...(National Marine Manufacturer's Association).
There should be another check-valve located at the squeeze ball, this is to
prevent any excess fuel from escaping from the hose, itself.
Chuck Bennett
Customer Care Rep.

Clark Roberts posted 05-08-2000 08:59 AM ET (US)
Like most regulations, they are just that! I agree that a check valve at tank's exit is a great idea but on the other hand, it shouldn't starve the engine for fuel and ultimately damage the engine.. the purpose of the fuel tank and its hoses, valves etc. is, after all, to supply the necessary fuel to the engine! A check valve redesign is needed! I have two in my tool box that almost refuse to open! One of these I took out of a 19 Whaler that had been fitted with an electric fuel pump and still couldn't get enough fuel! Others may have had
better experiences than I, but I have had nothing but headaches from these little devils!!! As to turning the boat upside down.... well, as long as the motor didn't fall off, the fuel would not leak out... BTW, a portable 6 gal tank has no check valve ... once the fuel line is attached.. I'm beating a dead horse here and am very opinionalted, as you can tell, so will shut up for a while...er, ahh... for a short while, heh, heh... Happy Whalin'..... Clark..aka.. the old man and the sea
Roy posted 05-08-2000 05:13 PM ET (US)
Clark,
I'm not playing devil's advocate, just passing some info. I'm in your camp and happy that I don't have a check valve. Added a Doel fin per your suggestion and am running better than ever.
Roy
lhg posted 01-24-2002 05:25 PM ET (US)
I am about to start looking for the anti-siphon valve on my 1986 18 Outrage. I have finally figured out, after 5 years of problems, that this 15 year old thing must be giving me the fuel starvation problems I have been encountering. When I run the engines on an external tank, I have no such problems.
Question is: I have looked at the detailed Whaler exploded parts diagrams and listings I have for this boat, and they don't show an anti-siphon valve. They only show and list a "hose barb" at the tank withdrawl fitting. Is it possible that the valve is contained in the fuel withdrawl fitting on the tank itself, which is a large diameter plate, and before the conventional fuel hose barb?
My boat is completely original and purchased new, so no one before me could have messed with this.
If anybody here has experience in locating one of these on an 80's Outrage or Revenge, I'd appreciate knowing where to find this contraption! I agree, that's it's probably not needed, or at least I can put a new one in.
dfmcintyre posted 01-24-2002 05:35 PM ET (US)
Larry -
If you are unable to locate it, a call to Florida Tank, in Miami might help.
Don
Eagleman posted 01-24-2002 11:06 PM ET (US)
Larry,
I spent time last fall looking for this anti-siphon valve on our 1984 Outrage fuel tank. I removed the barbed fitting off the fuel tank and inspected it for the anti-siphon valve. It wasn't inside the barb fitting so I looked down the fuel pick up pipe in the tank and I couldn't see it in there either. This was the orginal barbed tank fitting and it didn't appear that the previous owner had tampered with it. I figured that I don't have a anti-siphon valve, my problem was a non-OMC fuel bulb that was causing the fuel problem.Good luck
lhg posted 01-25-2002 02:32 PM ET (US)
This seems to be two Outrages here that didn't come with the anti-siphon valve? I'm suspecting my 18 Outrage doesn't have one either. Has anybody else found one of these on their Outrage fuel system? Supposedly, Whaler is saying they were used, and my engines are acting like there is one. The Mercury engine manual also says this is the first thing to look for as a problem. But where?
lhg posted 05-28-2002 07:50 PM ET (US)
I can now definitely confirm that my 1986 Outrage 18 did NOT come with an anti-siphon valve at the tank withdrawl fitting.
dfmcintyre posted 05-28-2002 08:51 PM ET (US)
Larry -
I'm sure you've checked this, but is the vent line to the tank unrestricted? I've heard about spider webs, wasps nests getting the port plugged.
One way to check; slightly pressurize the outgoing fuel line, check the port for sound?
Don
outrage22 posted 05-29-2002 01:12 AM ET (US)
are the symptoms of a bad check valve obvious?
thank you
83 Revenge posted 07-24-2005 11:17 AM ET (US)
I had experienced this same problem. I changed lines, primer ball, looked for the anti-siphon valve. Finally I decided to take nothing for granted and started with the fittings on the tank. I removed the barb fitting and found no anti-siphon. I then removed the 90 degree fitting on top of the tank and found a screen. The screen had some debris and a small peice of plastic. I removed the debris, cleaned the screen and reassembled. Took it out for a test drive and no more buzzer, no collapsing ball, no loss of power. In my research of this topic I found many people were having this same problem. But none mentioned this screen. I hope that others will find this and save money wasted on fixing symptoms instead of the problem.
Happy Whaling
jimh posted 07-25-2005 08:51 AM ET (US)
Thanks for the additional data. Can I assume from your screen name that your boat is a c.1983 Boston Whaler?
83 Revenge posted 07-26-2005 12:10 PM ET (US)
Jimh,
Yes, a 1983 Whaler Revenge V-22 Cuddy. My first.
Allen

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Author	Topic: Outrage Fuel Tank Check Valve
Roy	posted 04-27-2000 10:59 AM ET (US) How do I eliminate the check valve or back flow valve on my 1992 Outrage 17 internal fuel tank? I suspect that it is prevening my primer bulb from staying full. Also, it takes a lot of squeezing to get the fuel through the water separator to the engine. (This is a new bulb).
Clark Roberts	posted 04-28-2000 08:00 AM ET (US) Roy, first you have to find the damn thing! Usually it is integral to the barb fitting exiting the tank. Find this fitting and remove and inspect it to see if there is a little spring loaded ball/valve cleverly hidden inside!!! If so, simply get a barb fitting to match (one that has no check valve built in) and replace!!! Problem solved. THose little devils have ruined a lot of engines is my guess, by starving them for fuel. Also they cause squeeze balls to get cardiac arrest, collapse, etc! Let us know if you find it! Good luck and Happy Whalin'..... Clark...Spruce Creek Navy
Roy	posted 04-28-2000 11:00 AM ET (US) Clark, Found the bugger. Will remove and let you know how it works out. Thanks, Roy
Walt Steffens	posted 05-02-2000 03:24 PM ET (US) Clark: I have followed your thought string on the check valve subject through several forums; and you seem to be very knowldgeable on the subject. Why are they there, are they in all Whalers with internal tanks (open & cabin) what purpose are they suppose to serve and why should you want to remove them?
bigz	posted 05-03-2000 09:30 AM ET (US) Prime reason is to prevent back flow siphoning of water plus any debris which had been filtered out by the external fuel filter back into the tank! Better place to install it would be on the inflow side of the fuel filter, easily accessible if there should be a problem. Just my two cents worth! Regards, Thomas
Clark Roberts	posted 05-03-2000 10:50 AM ET (US) Walt, I agree with BigZ! Reason for removal is that it takes too much suction to overcome the spring-loaded ball valve! Fuel flow can be restricted and at WOT (timing fully advanced) a lean mixture can burn a piston or two... an in-line squeeze ball provides a check-valve.... just be careful if squeeze ball is removed as gas can siphon out of tank if open fuel line is positioned below gas level in tank!!!! Happy Whalin'... Clark
Roy	posted 05-04-2000 11:11 AM ET (US) Update on check valve removal: Clark, Removed the fitting and guess what? - No spring and ball check valve. Found a generic barb fitting that was clear through & through. Now, I bought my boat used but the paint on the barbed fitting was the same grey that matched the tank fitting as you'd expect out of the factory. And, the notice I got from service@whaler.com says that a check valve is installed on all Whaler tanks. Go figure. Well, I'm happy I know what I have and will fish and cruise with more confidence. Thanks again Clark & BigZ's two cents.
Walt Steffens	posted 05-04-2000 04:50 PM ET (US) Ok guys I have followed so far, and I would agree that the check valve in the primer ball would serve the same purpose. My Revenge has twins and as far as I can remember two lines (copper) exiting the tank cavity under the cockpit sole. They change to neoperne in the bait well and are routed into the starboard sponson hull and then to a pair of bulkhead fittings in the transome area side liner. At this point they stay neoprene thru the water seperators & primer balls into the engines. Question: in your experience did the factory use a manifold or two pickups in the top of the tank? Will I have to remove the cockpit floor panel to get to the pickups? I plan to pursue this as I can remember having trouble priming one or both the engines after a long non use period. This would indicate to me that the check ball is plastic and sticking in the seat. Thanks for the heads up on this problem!
Roy	posted 05-07-2000 08:55 PM ET (US) The following is what I received from Whaler. Interesting? Roy, The check-valve is used to prevent fuel from escaping in the event that the boat flips over, or if the line gets cut/disconnected. NMMA regulations...(National Marine Manufacturer's Association). There should be another check-valve located at the squeeze ball, this is to prevent any excess fuel from escaping from the hose, itself. Chuck Bennett Customer Care Rep.
Clark Roberts	posted 05-08-2000 08:59 AM ET (US) Like most regulations, they are just that! I agree that a check valve at tank's exit is a great idea but on the other hand, it shouldn't starve the engine for fuel and ultimately damage the engine.. the purpose of the fuel tank and its hoses, valves etc. is, after all, to supply the necessary fuel to the engine! A check valve redesign is needed! I have two in my tool box that almost refuse to open! One of these I took out of a 19 Whaler that had been fitted with an electric fuel pump and still couldn't get enough fuel! Others may have had better experiences than I, but I have had nothing but headaches from these little devils!!! As to turning the boat upside down.... well, as long as the motor didn't fall off, the fuel would not leak out... BTW, a portable 6 gal tank has no check valve ... once the fuel line is attached.. I'm beating a dead horse here and am very opinionalted, as you can tell, so will shut up for a while...er, ahh... for a short while, heh, heh... Happy Whalin'..... Clark..aka.. the old man and the sea
Roy	posted 05-08-2000 05:13 PM ET (US) Clark, I'm not playing devil's advocate, just passing some info. I'm in your camp and happy that I don't have a check valve. Added a Doel fin per your suggestion and am running better than ever. Roy
lhg	posted 01-24-2002 05:25 PM ET (US) I am about to start looking for the anti-siphon valve on my 1986 18 Outrage. I have finally figured out, after 5 years of problems, that this 15 year old thing must be giving me the fuel starvation problems I have been encountering. When I run the engines on an external tank, I have no such problems. Question is: I have looked at the detailed Whaler exploded parts diagrams and listings I have for this boat, and they don't show an anti-siphon valve. They only show and list a "hose barb" at the tank withdrawl fitting. Is it possible that the valve is contained in the fuel withdrawl fitting on the tank itself, which is a large diameter plate, and before the conventional fuel hose barb? My boat is completely original and purchased new, so no one before me could have messed with this. If anybody here has experience in locating one of these on an 80's Outrage or Revenge, I'd appreciate knowing where to find this contraption! I agree, that's it's probably not needed, or at least I can put a new one in.
dfmcintyre	posted 01-24-2002 05:35 PM ET (US) Larry - If you are unable to locate it, a call to Florida Tank, in Miami might help. Don
Eagleman	posted 01-24-2002 11:06 PM ET (US) Larry, I spent time last fall looking for this anti-siphon valve on our 1984 Outrage fuel tank. I removed the barbed fitting off the fuel tank and inspected it for the anti-siphon valve. It wasn't inside the barb fitting so I looked down the fuel pick up pipe in the tank and I couldn't see it in there either. This was the orginal barbed tank fitting and it didn't appear that the previous owner had tampered with it. I figured that I don't have a anti-siphon valve, my problem was a non-OMC fuel bulb that was causing the fuel problem.Good luck
lhg	posted 01-25-2002 02:32 PM ET (US) This seems to be two Outrages here that didn't come with the anti-siphon valve? I'm suspecting my 18 Outrage doesn't have one either. Has anybody else found one of these on their Outrage fuel system? Supposedly, Whaler is saying they were used, and my engines are acting like there is one. The Mercury engine manual also says this is the first thing to look for as a problem. But where?
lhg	posted 05-28-2002 07:50 PM ET (US) I can now definitely confirm that my 1986 Outrage 18 did NOT come with an anti-siphon valve at the tank withdrawl fitting.
dfmcintyre	posted 05-28-2002 08:51 PM ET (US) Larry - I'm sure you've checked this, but is the vent line to the tank unrestricted? I've heard about spider webs, wasps nests getting the port plugged. One way to check; slightly pressurize the outgoing fuel line, check the port for sound? Don
outrage22	posted 05-29-2002 01:12 AM ET (US) are the symptoms of a bad check valve obvious? thank you
83 Revenge	posted 07-24-2005 11:17 AM ET (US) I had experienced this same problem. I changed lines, primer ball, looked for the anti-siphon valve. Finally I decided to take nothing for granted and started with the fittings on the tank. I removed the barb fitting and found no anti-siphon. I then removed the 90 degree fitting on top of the tank and found a screen. The screen had some debris and a small peice of plastic. I removed the debris, cleaned the screen and reassembled. Took it out for a test drive and no more buzzer, no collapsing ball, no loss of power. In my research of this topic I found many people were having this same problem. But none mentioned this screen. I hope that others will find this and save money wasted on fixing symptoms instead of the problem. Happy Whaling
jimh	posted 07-25-2005 08:51 AM ET (US) Thanks for the additional data. Can I assume from your screen name that your boat is a c.1983 Boston Whaler?
83 Revenge	posted 07-26-2005 12:10 PM ET (US) Jimh, Yes, a 1983 Whaler Revenge V-22 Cuddy. My first. Allen