Teleflex SeaStar support bracket stuck. STUCK.

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Author Topic:   Teleflex SeaStar support bracket stuck. STUCK.

Sheila posted 03-16-2005 09:24 PM ET (US)
We received the parts we need to replace the cylinder seals in our Teleflex SeaStar steering cylinder. The directions state that one begins by removing two sets of nuts and washers and then removing the support bracket. This bracket is outboard of each seal, so that makes sense.
Jeff removed all the fasteners with ease. In fact he said they were almost too loose. The support bracket itself will not budge.
I called Teleflex today and we talked with a customer support guy there. He told Jeff that if the "wrong" grease is used to grease the support rod, it can turn to cement. He's going to check with their warranty guy to see if he has any suggestions.
Any of you mechanical gurus have any ideas for us? We've tried tapping with a mallet (and banging with a mallet). Penetrating oil did nothing.
Morocco posted 03-16-2005 10:26 PM ET (US)
Sheila --
I did the same job last year -- the rod that runs through the back of your motor just behind the steering cylinder (through the hollow pivot tube)-- is that the one that's stuck?
Mine was stuck as well, the grease had 'dried out' and what I ended up doing was to leave one of the metal 's' shaped brackets (see 'front mount' picture on this page)
http://www.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD/oboard.htm
in place, removing the other three attach points (that is, the two ends of the steering rams/cylinder, and the 's' bracket opposite) -- then I was able to use a steel rod as a drift pin, placing it at the 'shoulder' of the 's' bracket, then hitting the steel rod with a hammer -- applying force outboard so that I could 'break' the support rod free a few millimeters. (that is, sliding out of the tube) Then I soaked the thing in penetrating oil (at both ends, keep the place where you're placing the metal rod against the 's' dry) and, using the drift and hammer, was able to slowly drive the support rod out of the hollow tube. You have to take care not to hit the support rod or the polished rams ( I taped them with duct tape over some card stock.
Then I cleaned the heck out of that rod and tube and greased it liberally with the best quality grease I could get.
I didn't use heat because of the proximity of fuel lines, etc, but I suppose you could do that with a small 'pinpoint' torch and heat shields if you felt confident, but I wouldn't.
I'm out of town, but when I get back I can take some pictures if this doesn't make sense.
The job was a bit of a bear, but I was able to totally rebuild my seastar system, replacing all seals, front and back. My steering rams were perfect, but if yours are pitted or scratched, you may need to replace the cylinder completely.
Mark
Sheila posted 03-16-2005 11:54 PM ET (US)
Mark, thank you! I've printed out your suggestions for Jeff to look at. He's telling me that the support bracket itself is stuck. I haven't been down to the boat for a few days (orthopedic injury that I don't believe would appreciate cool damp air....long story) so it's hard for me to visualize what he's talking about. Sometimes he's not the best at verbal descriptions. We do have copies of all the Teleflex exploded diagrams.
If he has more questions, I'll ask. At the moment he's down at the boat trying more penetrating oil. He's in mourning as he's missing the last night of lobster season...
By the way, the Teleflex guy suggested that we not use heat, for all the reasons that you mentioned. We'll take his (and your) word for it.
And if I may rant for just a moment: Why is it that so far, every time I go into a chandlery to inquire about something, or to buy a part, the salesman (so far, all men) say, "Tell your husband to...." I keep wanting to say, "how do you know I'm not the wrench in this family??"
Sheila posted 03-17-2005 12:51 AM ET (US)
Jeff asks: Did you do this work on the water or did you haul your boat out?
Morocco posted 03-17-2005 01:54 AM ET (US)
On the water. Did not lose anything overboard, this time.
Ummm, my wife has the same problem, usually in the electronics or tile/masonry fields, both of which she usually knows as much or more about than the sales'person.'
A little carefully placed grease across the forehead and under the nails can take care of the problem re: the wrench...
Sheila posted 03-17-2005 01:02 PM ET (US)
Thanks, Mark.
Grease under the nails, huh? Much less drastic than the approach I was considering: a tattoo across my biceps reading, "Wrench wench."
fairdeal2u posted 03-17-2005 04:05 PM ET (US)
you need to take off your tilt tube. your steering rod is stuck. it will be easier to consider just replacing the entire two pieces. knock out your entire tilt tube with the stuck rod. get a stainless steel tilt tube so that this doesn't happen again. order a new steering arm for your hydraulics. if you can't get a replacement then you will have an easier time of saving it with the tilt tube off of the motor and working on a bench. you are going to want to take your boat off the water to do this. read the other postings on replacing stuck tilt tubes.....
hope that this makes sense.
p.s. use triple guard grease. don't use trailer grease on the steering arm parts
Sheila posted 03-17-2005 08:19 PM ET (US)
Thanks, Fairdeal2u. As I said, I haven't seen it, but Jeff is quite certain that it's the bracket itself that is stuck. So far a few rounds of penetrating oil, and some time, seem to be loosening it up a bit.
Sheila posted 03-18-2005 01:51 AM ET (US)
Fairdeal, after discussing this again with my husband, he thinks perhaps it is the steering rod to which the bracket is stuck. (It occurred to me that it has to be stuck to something, and as I said in my first post, his verbal descriptions are sometimes not too clear.) He's making progress with penetrating oil.
I don't understand why you think our tilt tube needs to be replaced. Can you explain that more for me?
fairdeal2u posted 03-18-2005 02:15 AM ET (US)
standard tilt tubes are not stainless. They will get saltwater in them and they will rust and pit. This is a big problem with the teleflex cable systems. The will bind every season. From your description. Your tilt tube has also rusted and now your hydraulic will not turn in the tube.
There are stainless stell tilt tubes. Much more resistant to becoming corroded. They cost around 70-80.00 and are worth the investment...especially if you are going to have to take them off anyway.
I would bet that if you examine your steering arm off of your hydraulic and your tilt tube, that there will be pitting and corrosion damage....for it to be so stuck as you describe.
After all of the work that you will be doing to free it up, you still have not fixed the problem.
You will save a lot more time and effort if you just go ahead and knock out and replace the tilt tube rather than trying to save 50.00 or so. How much is your time worth?
Sheila posted 03-18-2005 01:06 PM ET (US)
Thanks for explaining that, Fairdeal. Without looking at the boat it was a bit difficult for me to picture. Still is, but I'll probably head down there today to take a look.
Just to clarify: The steering system works. The wheel turns the motor. The problem that led to this situation is a leak in the port seal gland.
fairdeal2u posted 03-18-2005 01:47 PM ET (US)
Yes, you can turn your steering wheel, but your steering bracket is not moving as it shoudl in the tilt tube as you lower and raise your motor. You probably damaged your seals because of the extra pressure on your linkage due to the stuck bracket in the tilt tube. It is supposed to rotate in the tilt tube as you lower and raise the motor. If you didn't have the hydraulics, you
wouldn't be able to turn your steering without putting a lot of pressure on the helm.
Hopefully, your tilt tube is not too stuck as well. It can be a real pain to knock out as well if it is corroded onto the motor mount.
Joe Kriz posted 03-18-2005 06:15 PM ET (US)
Sheila,
Take a look at this diagram from Teleflex.
http://www.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD/oboard.htm
From this diagram it appears that nothing moves back and forth inside the tilt tube. Only the cylinder moves back and forth on the outside ram rod.
I don't understand why everything has to be taken apart just to get the cylinder off. There are nuts on the ends of the cylinder ram rod and nuts on the ends of the tilt tube where the brackets mount.
fairdeal2u posted 03-18-2005 10:38 PM ET (US)
It sounds like she is saying that it (the steel rod that goes through the tilt tube) doesn't spin, rotate, as the motor is tilted up and down. ( rather than move left or right )
On the hydraulics, the cylinder moves along the front rod.
On the old cables, the end of the steering cable would also get stuck inside of the tilt tube. You always had to keep it clean and lube otherwise it would bind and make it hard to steer. I have replaced three tilt tubes already for myself and friends. The last one was on a 90 hp honda 4 stroke with cable steering.
Sheila posted 03-18-2005 11:23 PM ET (US)
Everything moves just exactly as it should. It just doesn't move quite as smoothly as it should due to the slow leak at the seal gland. We believe the leak was caused by the improper installation of an unvented filler cap at the upper helm. The service representative at Teleflex has sent us a vented cap, which we will install as soon as we replace the leaky seal.
Joe, thanks for the link. We have downloaded the owner's manual. In order to remove the seal, one must remove the support bracket, as it is outboard of the seal. This part is what's stuck. The repair parts came with detailed, illustrated instructions as well. I couldn't find that pdf on the Teleflex website, or I would have posted it here. The only parts that should need to come off are two sets of nuts and washers that hold the bracket in place, the bracket itself, and the seal that is to be replaced.
Of course, once Jeff gets the bracket off, if we find signs of corrosion (rather than the improper grease that the Teleflex representative believes to be the culprit), we will then go on a major "search and destroy" mission for corroded parts.
Sheila posted 03-19-2005 12:24 AM ET (US)
Jeff removed the bracket tonight. Multiple rounds of patience, penetrating oil and elbow grease did the trick. He also used a gear puller once he had it partially freed.
We found no appreciable corrosion whatsoever on the bracket nor on the steering tube. As Mark described, the grease had dried up.
Thanks, everyone, for your assistance.
fairdeal2u posted 03-19-2005 02:00 AM ET (US)
A little trick to clean out the tube..
tie a small rag in the middle of a length of rope. Feed one end through and then you can scrub out the inner lining of the tube.
Glad to hear that there was no corrosion. Use triple guard ..
OMC lubricant.
Sheila posted 03-19-2005 12:21 PM ET (US)
Fairdeal, thanks for the recommendation. I meant "steering rod" when I posted last night, not "tube." The only internal surface we have to deal with is the section of the bracket through which the rod runs, and it's pretty clean.
fairdeal2u posted 03-19-2005 09:38 PM ET (US)
sound like you have things under control.. the bracket that you refer to is the tilt tube. Use the string and rag to really clean it out, feel for pitting inside the tube,
I suppose that the rod that you cleaned from the hydraulic, is made of stainless... otherwise it would have rusted inside of the tube. Maybe corrosion X might be a good solvent to clean it with.
Sheila posted 03-20-2005 01:56 AM ET (US)
Fairdeal, I think we've been miscommunicating. The part that was stuck is Teleflex part number 839120. There are two of them on the unit.
If you look click on the link that Joe provided in this thread, and then click on "front mount" under item 3, you'll see two of them. They're L-shaped pieces.
fairdeal2u posted 03-20-2005 03:21 PM ET (US)
So, you are saying that just the two support brackets were stuck onto the rod. not that the support rod was stuck in the tilt tube.
How did that prevent you from tilting the motor up and down?
Sheila posted 03-20-2005 05:04 PM ET (US)
Right, fairdeal. I thought that was what I had been saying all along. On 3/18 I posted and stated that everything moves exactly as it should--only problem is the leaky seal.

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Author	Topic: Teleflex SeaStar support bracket stuck. STUCK.
Sheila	posted 03-16-2005 09:24 PM ET (US) We received the parts we need to replace the cylinder seals in our Teleflex SeaStar steering cylinder. The directions state that one begins by removing two sets of nuts and washers and then removing the support bracket. This bracket is outboard of each seal, so that makes sense. Jeff removed all the fasteners with ease. In fact he said they were almost too loose. The support bracket itself will not budge. I called Teleflex today and we talked with a customer support guy there. He told Jeff that if the "wrong" grease is used to grease the support rod, it can turn to cement. He's going to check with their warranty guy to see if he has any suggestions. Any of you mechanical gurus have any ideas for us? We've tried tapping with a mallet (and banging with a mallet). Penetrating oil did nothing.
Morocco	posted 03-16-2005 10:26 PM ET (US) Sheila -- I did the same job last year -- the rod that runs through the back of your motor just behind the steering cylinder (through the hollow pivot tube)-- is that the one that's stuck? Mine was stuck as well, the grease had 'dried out' and what I ended up doing was to leave one of the metal 's' shaped brackets (see 'front mount' picture on this page) http://www.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD/oboard.htm in place, removing the other three attach points (that is, the two ends of the steering rams/cylinder, and the 's' bracket opposite) -- then I was able to use a steel rod as a drift pin, placing it at the 'shoulder' of the 's' bracket, then hitting the steel rod with a hammer -- applying force outboard so that I could 'break' the support rod free a few millimeters. (that is, sliding out of the tube) Then I soaked the thing in penetrating oil (at both ends, keep the place where you're placing the metal rod against the 's' dry) and, using the drift and hammer, was able to slowly drive the support rod out of the hollow tube. You have to take care not to hit the support rod or the polished rams ( I taped them with duct tape over some card stock. Then I cleaned the heck out of that rod and tube and greased it liberally with the best quality grease I could get. I didn't use heat because of the proximity of fuel lines, etc, but I suppose you could do that with a small 'pinpoint' torch and heat shields if you felt confident, but I wouldn't. I'm out of town, but when I get back I can take some pictures if this doesn't make sense. The job was a bit of a bear, but I was able to totally rebuild my seastar system, replacing all seals, front and back. My steering rams were perfect, but if yours are pitted or scratched, you may need to replace the cylinder completely. Mark
Sheila	posted 03-16-2005 11:54 PM ET (US) Mark, thank you! I've printed out your suggestions for Jeff to look at. He's telling me that the support bracket itself is stuck. I haven't been down to the boat for a few days (orthopedic injury that I don't believe would appreciate cool damp air....long story) so it's hard for me to visualize what he's talking about. Sometimes he's not the best at verbal descriptions. We do have copies of all the Teleflex exploded diagrams. If he has more questions, I'll ask. At the moment he's down at the boat trying more penetrating oil. He's in mourning as he's missing the last night of lobster season... By the way, the Teleflex guy suggested that we not use heat, for all the reasons that you mentioned. We'll take his (and your) word for it. And if I may rant for just a moment: Why is it that so far, every time I go into a chandlery to inquire about something, or to buy a part, the salesman (so far, all men) say, "Tell your husband to...." I keep wanting to say, "how do you know I'm not the wrench in this family??"
Sheila	posted 03-17-2005 12:51 AM ET (US) Jeff asks: Did you do this work on the water or did you haul your boat out?
Morocco	posted 03-17-2005 01:54 AM ET (US) On the water. Did not lose anything overboard, this time. Ummm, my wife has the same problem, usually in the electronics or tile/masonry fields, both of which she usually knows as much or more about than the sales'person.' A little carefully placed grease across the forehead and under the nails can take care of the problem re: the wrench...
Sheila	posted 03-17-2005 01:02 PM ET (US) Thanks, Mark. Grease under the nails, huh? Much less drastic than the approach I was considering: a tattoo across my biceps reading, "Wrench wench."
fairdeal2u	posted 03-17-2005 04:05 PM ET (US) you need to take off your tilt tube. your steering rod is stuck. it will be easier to consider just replacing the entire two pieces. knock out your entire tilt tube with the stuck rod. get a stainless steel tilt tube so that this doesn't happen again. order a new steering arm for your hydraulics. if you can't get a replacement then you will have an easier time of saving it with the tilt tube off of the motor and working on a bench. you are going to want to take your boat off the water to do this. read the other postings on replacing stuck tilt tubes..... hope that this makes sense. p.s. use triple guard grease. don't use trailer grease on the steering arm parts
Sheila	posted 03-17-2005 08:19 PM ET (US) Thanks, Fairdeal2u. As I said, I haven't seen it, but Jeff is quite certain that it's the bracket itself that is stuck. So far a few rounds of penetrating oil, and some time, seem to be loosening it up a bit.
Sheila	posted 03-18-2005 01:51 AM ET (US) Fairdeal, after discussing this again with my husband, he thinks perhaps it is the steering rod to which the bracket is stuck. (It occurred to me that it has to be stuck to something, and as I said in my first post, his verbal descriptions are sometimes not too clear.) He's making progress with penetrating oil. I don't understand why you think our tilt tube needs to be replaced. Can you explain that more for me?
fairdeal2u	posted 03-18-2005 02:15 AM ET (US) standard tilt tubes are not stainless. They will get saltwater in them and they will rust and pit. This is a big problem with the teleflex cable systems. The will bind every season. From your description. Your tilt tube has also rusted and now your hydraulic will not turn in the tube. There are stainless stell tilt tubes. Much more resistant to becoming corroded. They cost around 70-80.00 and are worth the investment...especially if you are going to have to take them off anyway. I would bet that if you examine your steering arm off of your hydraulic and your tilt tube, that there will be pitting and corrosion damage....for it to be so stuck as you describe. After all of the work that you will be doing to free it up, you still have not fixed the problem. You will save a lot more time and effort if you just go ahead and knock out and replace the tilt tube rather than trying to save 50.00 or so. How much is your time worth?
Sheila	posted 03-18-2005 01:06 PM ET (US) Thanks for explaining that, Fairdeal. Without looking at the boat it was a bit difficult for me to picture. Still is, but I'll probably head down there today to take a look. Just to clarify: The steering system works. The wheel turns the motor. The problem that led to this situation is a leak in the port seal gland.
fairdeal2u	posted 03-18-2005 01:47 PM ET (US) Yes, you can turn your steering wheel, but your steering bracket is not moving as it shoudl in the tilt tube as you lower and raise your motor. You probably damaged your seals because of the extra pressure on your linkage due to the stuck bracket in the tilt tube. It is supposed to rotate in the tilt tube as you lower and raise the motor. If you didn't have the hydraulics, you wouldn't be able to turn your steering without putting a lot of pressure on the helm. Hopefully, your tilt tube is not too stuck as well. It can be a real pain to knock out as well if it is corroded onto the motor mount.
Joe Kriz	posted 03-18-2005 06:15 PM ET (US) Sheila, Take a look at this diagram from Teleflex. http://www.seastarsteering.com/OUTBOARD/oboard.htm From this diagram it appears that nothing moves back and forth inside the tilt tube. Only the cylinder moves back and forth on the outside ram rod. I don't understand why everything has to be taken apart just to get the cylinder off. There are nuts on the ends of the cylinder ram rod and nuts on the ends of the tilt tube where the brackets mount.
fairdeal2u	posted 03-18-2005 10:38 PM ET (US) It sounds like she is saying that it (the steel rod that goes through the tilt tube) doesn't spin, rotate, as the motor is tilted up and down. ( rather than move left or right ) On the hydraulics, the cylinder moves along the front rod. On the old cables, the end of the steering cable would also get stuck inside of the tilt tube. You always had to keep it clean and lube otherwise it would bind and make it hard to steer. I have replaced three tilt tubes already for myself and friends. The last one was on a 90 hp honda 4 stroke with cable steering.
Sheila	posted 03-18-2005 11:23 PM ET (US) Everything moves just exactly as it should. It just doesn't move quite as smoothly as it should due to the slow leak at the seal gland. We believe the leak was caused by the improper installation of an unvented filler cap at the upper helm. The service representative at Teleflex has sent us a vented cap, which we will install as soon as we replace the leaky seal. Joe, thanks for the link. We have downloaded the owner's manual. In order to remove the seal, one must remove the support bracket, as it is outboard of the seal. This part is what's stuck. The repair parts came with detailed, illustrated instructions as well. I couldn't find that pdf on the Teleflex website, or I would have posted it here. The only parts that should need to come off are two sets of nuts and washers that hold the bracket in place, the bracket itself, and the seal that is to be replaced. Of course, once Jeff gets the bracket off, if we find signs of corrosion (rather than the improper grease that the Teleflex representative believes to be the culprit), we will then go on a major "search and destroy" mission for corroded parts.
Sheila	posted 03-19-2005 12:24 AM ET (US) Jeff removed the bracket tonight. Multiple rounds of patience, penetrating oil and elbow grease did the trick. He also used a gear puller once he had it partially freed. We found no appreciable corrosion whatsoever on the bracket nor on the steering tube. As Mark described, the grease had dried up. Thanks, everyone, for your assistance.
fairdeal2u	posted 03-19-2005 02:00 AM ET (US) A little trick to clean out the tube.. tie a small rag in the middle of a length of rope. Feed one end through and then you can scrub out the inner lining of the tube. Glad to hear that there was no corrosion. Use triple guard .. OMC lubricant.
Sheila	posted 03-19-2005 12:21 PM ET (US) Fairdeal, thanks for the recommendation. I meant "steering rod" when I posted last night, not "tube." The only internal surface we have to deal with is the section of the bracket through which the rod runs, and it's pretty clean.
fairdeal2u	posted 03-19-2005 09:38 PM ET (US) sound like you have things under control.. the bracket that you refer to is the tilt tube. Use the string and rag to really clean it out, feel for pitting inside the tube, I suppose that the rod that you cleaned from the hydraulic, is made of stainless... otherwise it would have rusted inside of the tube. Maybe corrosion X might be a good solvent to clean it with.
Sheila	posted 03-20-2005 01:56 AM ET (US) Fairdeal, I think we've been miscommunicating. The part that was stuck is Teleflex part number 839120. There are two of them on the unit. If you look click on the link that Joe provided in this thread, and then click on "front mount" under item 3, you'll see two of them. They're L-shaped pieces.
fairdeal2u	posted 03-20-2005 03:21 PM ET (US) So, you are saying that just the two support brackets were stuck onto the rod. not that the support rod was stuck in the tilt tube. How did that prevent you from tilting the motor up and down?
Sheila	posted 03-20-2005 05:04 PM ET (US) Right, fairdeal. I thought that was what I had been saying all along. On 3/18 I posted and stated that everything moves exactly as it should--only problem is the leaky seal.