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Author Topic:   SPORT 13 Side Rails; Bimini top Mounting

eedork posted 07-13-2010 08:04 PM ET (US)
I just ordered a set of side rails and a Bimini top for my SPORT 13. These will be the first rails ever mounted to this hull, and I'm a little nervous about drilling 20 new holes into it. I think the railing bases will mount directly into the embedded wood that the seats rest on, so they should be pretty solid. But there are also some stanchions that mount to the inside wall of the hull. When these rails were installed at the factory, did they just screw these side stanchions directly to the hull wall or did they use a backing plate of some kind and through-bolt? I'm planning to bed all stanchions with 3M101.
Next question: I'd really like to mount the Bimini top to the rails to avoid making more holes. Anyone done this? Are the rails strong enough to hold the Bimini? Assuming the rails are strong enough, the only [problem] I see is that the Bimini top probably won't fold down onto the hull. This means I'll have to remove the top whenever I cover the boat, which could be a bit of hassle.
Thanks!
-Matt
eedork posted 07-13-2010 08:32 PM ET (US)
I just double checked the wood locating diagram, and it looks like there is a piece of plywood where the front railing stanchion mounts. Cool! I'm just surprised that they didn't do the same for the rear stanchion.
I also re-read Jim H's article on the Bimini top installation. If the railing mount seems like a bad idea, I'll follow Jim's lead.
-Matt
jimh posted 07-14-2010 09:05 AM ET (US)
Attaching the hinge of frame of the sun top or Bimini top top to the side rails is a good idea; as noted, it avoids having to mount the hinge base to the deck. A drawback with the hinges mounted on the side rails occurs when the sun top frame is to be folded down; there may be interference with the side rails that prevents the top from being lowered to the deck. If the hinge point is mounted well aft on the side rails, the hinge point may permit the sun top to be lowered all the way to the deck.
Also, the side rails are mounted inboard of the gunwales, and this will require the frame of the sun top to be narrower by four to six inches than if mounting to hinge bases on the gunwale. If you decide that mounting the hinge base on the side rails is not workable, the sun top frame will be too narrow to then mount to hinge bases on the gunwale.
If you use an off-the-shelf sun top, such as the TAYLOR MADE BoaTop that I purchased, the width of the frame can be made narrower by cutting the aluminum tubing, as the frame is made with telescoping sizes of tubing. Extra width in the sun top material can just be pulled lower on the frame. If you use a frame which is one-piece, the width cannot be easily adjusted, and the frame will have to be either pulled out or pulled in, if the final hinge point is not as originally designed.
To locate the position of embedded reinforcement material in the inboard face of the hull sides, you can use the tapping technique. The sound of a gentle tap on the hull will change slightly when you hit the area with embedded reinforcement. The change is subtle and requires developing some technique and an ear for it. Tap with a plastic hammer or the plastic handle of a tool. The position of embedded material can also sometimes be seen by using a strong lighting source and varying the angle of the light onto the surface. At some angles of lighting it may be possible to appreciate a very slight impression of the reinforcement in the surface of the hull.
If you have to install a self-tapping screw fastener into an area where there is no reinforcement, you can get some purchase for the fastener if you are very careful about the hole size you drill. If the hole is too small the laminate will tend to crack, and it the hole size is too large the screw will not bite into much material. But if the hole size is just right, the threads will cut nicely into the thin laminate. Always relieve the gel coat layer to a diameter larger than the fastener; if not done, the gel coat will crack. Install the fastener with an adhesive-sealant, and use an adhesive-sealant on the mounting base; this will add strength.
If you do not get a good bite in a non-reinforced area, you can make your own reinforcement with this technique: working with an L-shaped auger through a small diameter hole, dig out the foam behind the laminate surrounding the hole, creating a small pocket or void. Remove the loose foam with a vacuum through the hole. Instill a thickened resin mixture into the hole, filling the void as much as possible--try not to leave any air gaps. You may have to use a syringe to push the resin into the hole and fill the void, then quickly remote the nozzle from the hole; cover the hole with tape to prevent the resin from leaking out as it cures. Do not fill the void with pure resin, as the heat from curing may be excessive and melt more foam. This technique can create a small puck of thickened resin beneath the deck or hull. Drill a new hole into the puck area and install the fastener carefully. If you use epoxy resin you may be able to use a tap to cut threads into it, and then use a machine screw fastener.
eedork posted 07-14-2010 12:39 PM ET (US)
Great advice Jim - thanks! I really appreciate it!
I'm not sure exactly what the construction of the Bimini top is. I bought it online from a reputable dealer, so I'm hoping it works out. My first choice will be to mount it to the side rails. If that doesn't work, I'll mount it to the top rails following your recommendations.
The top and rails should be here by the end of the week or early next week. I'll report back once they arrive.
-Matt
contender posted 07-14-2010 02:24 PM ET (US)
eedork: I like the idea of mounting the Bimini top top to the side rails,(no holes in the fiberglass) You need to find some items like two radio antenna mounts, and screw the Bimini top top to the antenna mount threads. The antenna mounts have a ratchet to hold it in position, and are sized to fit the rails. Some have double swivels, so mounting it on the rail will not be a problem, set them to the inside and when the top come/folds down it will be on the inside on the rail. The problem will be the connection point will be higher than were the top will rest on. Unless you can mount the top in the front of the rail or on one of the up rights that support the top rail....good luck
Tohsgib posted 07-14-2010 02:42 PM ET (US)
Before you go crazy here are two things to consider: will your Bimini top fold in enough to mount on the rails; can you find rail mounts for the thicker tube Whaler rails?
eedork posted 07-14-2010 06:32 PM ET (US)
The Bimini top top and rails were purchased from the same on-line vendor. The Bimini top comes with both stanchions and rail mounts. I assume the rail mounts and the Bimini top will fit the rails since they come from the same source. We shall see.
The antenna mounts are a great idea too. Those will work if the supplied hardware doesn't.
-Matt

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Author	Topic: SPORT 13 Side Rails; Bimini top Mounting
eedork	posted 07-13-2010 08:04 PM ET (US) I just ordered a set of side rails and a Bimini top for my SPORT 13. These will be the first rails ever mounted to this hull, and I'm a little nervous about drilling 20 new holes into it. I think the railing bases will mount directly into the embedded wood that the seats rest on, so they should be pretty solid. But there are also some stanchions that mount to the inside wall of the hull. When these rails were installed at the factory, did they just screw these side stanchions directly to the hull wall or did they use a backing plate of some kind and through-bolt? I'm planning to bed all stanchions with 3M101. Next question: I'd really like to mount the Bimini top to the rails to avoid making more holes. Anyone done this? Are the rails strong enough to hold the Bimini? Assuming the rails are strong enough, the only [problem] I see is that the Bimini top probably won't fold down onto the hull. This means I'll have to remove the top whenever I cover the boat, which could be a bit of hassle. Thanks! -Matt
eedork	posted 07-13-2010 08:32 PM ET (US) I just double checked the wood locating diagram, and it looks like there is a piece of plywood where the front railing stanchion mounts. Cool! I'm just surprised that they didn't do the same for the rear stanchion. I also re-read Jim H's article on the Bimini top installation. If the railing mount seems like a bad idea, I'll follow Jim's lead. -Matt
jimh	posted 07-14-2010 09:05 AM ET (US) Attaching the hinge of frame of the sun top or Bimini top top to the side rails is a good idea; as noted, it avoids having to mount the hinge base to the deck. A drawback with the hinges mounted on the side rails occurs when the sun top frame is to be folded down; there may be interference with the side rails that prevents the top from being lowered to the deck. If the hinge point is mounted well aft on the side rails, the hinge point may permit the sun top to be lowered all the way to the deck. Also, the side rails are mounted inboard of the gunwales, and this will require the frame of the sun top to be narrower by four to six inches than if mounting to hinge bases on the gunwale. If you decide that mounting the hinge base on the side rails is not workable, the sun top frame will be too narrow to then mount to hinge bases on the gunwale. If you use an off-the-shelf sun top, such as the TAYLOR MADE BoaTop that I purchased, the width of the frame can be made narrower by cutting the aluminum tubing, as the frame is made with telescoping sizes of tubing. Extra width in the sun top material can just be pulled lower on the frame. If you use a frame which is one-piece, the width cannot be easily adjusted, and the frame will have to be either pulled out or pulled in, if the final hinge point is not as originally designed. To locate the position of embedded reinforcement material in the inboard face of the hull sides, you can use the tapping technique. The sound of a gentle tap on the hull will change slightly when you hit the area with embedded reinforcement. The change is subtle and requires developing some technique and an ear for it. Tap with a plastic hammer or the plastic handle of a tool. The position of embedded material can also sometimes be seen by using a strong lighting source and varying the angle of the light onto the surface. At some angles of lighting it may be possible to appreciate a very slight impression of the reinforcement in the surface of the hull. If you have to install a self-tapping screw fastener into an area where there is no reinforcement, you can get some purchase for the fastener if you are very careful about the hole size you drill. If the hole is too small the laminate will tend to crack, and it the hole size is too large the screw will not bite into much material. But if the hole size is just right, the threads will cut nicely into the thin laminate. Always relieve the gel coat layer to a diameter larger than the fastener; if not done, the gel coat will crack. Install the fastener with an adhesive-sealant, and use an adhesive-sealant on the mounting base; this will add strength. If you do not get a good bite in a non-reinforced area, you can make your own reinforcement with this technique: working with an L-shaped auger through a small diameter hole, dig out the foam behind the laminate surrounding the hole, creating a small pocket or void. Remove the loose foam with a vacuum through the hole. Instill a thickened resin mixture into the hole, filling the void as much as possible--try not to leave any air gaps. You may have to use a syringe to push the resin into the hole and fill the void, then quickly remote the nozzle from the hole; cover the hole with tape to prevent the resin from leaking out as it cures. Do not fill the void with pure resin, as the heat from curing may be excessive and melt more foam. This technique can create a small puck of thickened resin beneath the deck or hull. Drill a new hole into the puck area and install the fastener carefully. If you use epoxy resin you may be able to use a tap to cut threads into it, and then use a machine screw fastener.
eedork	posted 07-14-2010 12:39 PM ET (US) Great advice Jim - thanks! I really appreciate it! I'm not sure exactly what the construction of the Bimini top is. I bought it online from a reputable dealer, so I'm hoping it works out. My first choice will be to mount it to the side rails. If that doesn't work, I'll mount it to the top rails following your recommendations. The top and rails should be here by the end of the week or early next week. I'll report back once they arrive. -Matt
contender	posted 07-14-2010 02:24 PM ET (US) eedork: I like the idea of mounting the Bimini top top to the side rails,(no holes in the fiberglass) You need to find some items like two radio antenna mounts, and screw the Bimini top top to the antenna mount threads. The antenna mounts have a ratchet to hold it in position, and are sized to fit the rails. Some have double swivels, so mounting it on the rail will not be a problem, set them to the inside and when the top come/folds down it will be on the inside on the rail. The problem will be the connection point will be higher than were the top will rest on. Unless you can mount the top in the front of the rail or on one of the up rights that support the top rail....good luck
Tohsgib	posted 07-14-2010 02:42 PM ET (US) Before you go crazy here are two things to consider: will your Bimini top fold in enough to mount on the rails; can you find rail mounts for the thicker tube Whaler rails?
eedork	posted 07-14-2010 06:32 PM ET (US) The Bimini top top and rails were purchased from the same on-line vendor. The Bimini top comes with both stanchions and rail mounts. I assume the rail mounts and the Bimini top will fit the rails since they come from the same source. We shall see. The antenna mounts are a great idea too. Those will work if the supplied hardware doesn't. -Matt