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Author Topic:   Two-stroke Smokeless, Odorless Oil

lureman posted 09-05-2005 07:22 PM ET (US)
I have an Evinrude 9.9-HP two-stroke I use as a kicker motor. I hate the smell and smoke of a two-stroke. Other than buying a four-stroke--which is where I am headed--what is the best odorless, smokeless two-stroke oil? Thank you
Buckda posted 09-05-2005 07:30 PM ET (US)
Two strokes don't have to smoke a lot, although some smoke more than others. I have a 1970 Johnson 6 HP two-stroke that hardly smokes at all. On the other hand, my 1986 Mercury 150 smokes quite a bit when at idle (but at speed, she runs pretty clean).
I'd suggest trying an OEM oil from the manufacturer of your engine, followed by a tune-up from your mechanic. If you're mixing your oil, there's not a lot you can do for smoke at idle. The engine may only need 100 to 1 oiling at idle, but if you've mixed it at 50 to 1 for running at speed, there is going to be extra oil in the mix when you're going slow.
The real question becomes "How much" do you hate that smell? A new 9.9 HP four-stroke kicker will likely cost about 2,000 dollars or more and you'll likely only get a few hundered dollars on the two-stroke.
That boils down to a $1,500 solution to your problem, but a guaranteed solution. Tuning the current motor and using a premium grade oil (OEM) may solve, or at least ease the problem in the meantime.
Dave
lureman posted 09-05-2005 07:38 PM ET (US)
Thank you for the reply. I should have stated I use the motor to troll 90% of the time and at 1-3 mph the smell is much worse. at running speed its fine. I am using regular PENNZOIL™ two-stroke. I thought about leaning it out but don't think it would be good for the times I run it hard. I have a new 115 EFI four-stroke as my main motor and I guess it has spoiled me.
keltonkrew posted 09-05-2005 08:59 PM ET (US)
I use AMSOIL injector oil and mix premix 50:1. No smoke whatsoever. My neighbors.....all their boat's smoke like a chimney...I never have any smoke and boat runs/idles great....never had a problem with it.
Teak Oil posted 09-06-2005 09:59 AM ET (US)
I can tell you don't use Quicksilver oil, it makes you look like an old time whaling ship.
Evinrude XD25 amd XD30 oils are pretty good. Right now I am using cheap West Marine oil and its better than the Quicksilver junk
edfish posted 09-06-2005 02:31 PM ET (US)
Hello to all.
If you want to have an engine that does not give you that oil burning smell or smoke then the four-stroke is the way to go.
I have been using my twin Mercury 75-HP four-strokes for five years now with 2,800 hours on them each, and I never get smoked out. You might smell some exaust occasionally, but, it is not that burning oil smell. Actually, the only time I smell the exaust is when I am tied up at the dock with the wind blowing directly back into the boat. On the ocean I never smell anything. The newer two-strokes are much better than the old ones, but, they still burn oil. Very little at trolling speed, however.
The drawback to the four-stroke is that you will have to change oil and filter at least every 100hrs. I change the oil and filter every 80hrs. Oil is cheap compared to an engine.
The best of luck to you whatever you choose.
Ed Tavas. F/V Friendship
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 09-06-2005 02:51 PM ET (US)
edfish--When they come out with four-stroke's that weigh the same as same hp two-strokes, I'll gladly make the switch. Until then I will enjoy the sweet smell of blue smoke,it can be a nice way to take the edge off a week too (better than beer) ; o )
lureman posted 09-06-2005 03:57 PM ET (US)
I have a new 115 Mercury EFI four-stroke as my main motor and guess it has spoiled me.
Teak Oil posted 09-06-2005 11:31 PM ET (US)
I am with Bob, I take the smoke because with it comes an engine with the balls to put a smile on my face when I hear that sweet two stroke roar!
Hal Watkins posted 09-07-2005 12:07 AM ET (US)
My Evinrude 60-HP VRO has always been fed OMC XD-25 or XD-30. I recently switched to OMC XD-50. My wife has commented since I switched that she hasn't noticed as much smoke or smell. So XD-50 passes the wife test!
jimh posted 09-07-2005 08:07 AM ET (US)
The memory recall associated with the sense of smell is very strong. I find that the smell of two-stroke engines elicits recall of many very pleasant memories of previous boating, and I do not find it objectionable.
Seeing a little smoke from my outboard motor at start up or idle does not bother me, and, in fact, I find it reassuring because it is a sign the engine has been getting some lubricating oil.
The most exotic (or expensive) oil I have tried is BRP XD-30. It still smokes. I do not find the smell to be particularly offensive.
I do find the exhaust of a Mercury classic two-stroke burning WALMART Super-Tech oil to be rather pleasant. It really takes me back to my youth and reminds me of boating as a kid.
seahorse posted 09-07-2005 08:42 AM ET (US)
As long as the motor is in a good state of tune and that the thermostat is working correctly, the Johnson/Evinrude XD-50 semi-synthetic oil will cut down the smoke immensely.
To almost eliminate the smoke and smell, the fully synthetic oil XD-100 works fine and it also cleans up the internals of your motor. It is a lot more expensive, about $30/gallon, but that would last several seasons, depending how much you use your 9.9 annually.
Teak Oil posted 09-07-2005 10:14 PM ET (US)
How much for a gallon of XD50?
onlyawhaler posted 09-07-2005 10:47 PM ET (US)
I have switched to Evinrude XD-50 as well and I noticed an improvement over the older Johnson TCW-3 oil. It is a synthetic blend, the XD-100 I believe is a complete synthetic oil
The XD-50 in our area is about $23 dollars a gallon.
BOB KEMMLER JR posted 09-08-2005 12:08 AM ET (US)
Jim-I'm with you on the memory recall thing.Another sure fire way to bring back memories is the burble of a inboard v8,reminds me of my great uncles 1969 32 pacemaker with the 318 in it.Didn't Robert Duvall say "I love the smell of 2 stroke oil in the morning"?and "bayliner owners don't surf" lol
seahorse posted 09-08-2005 01:47 AM ET (US)
Teak Oil,
Bulk XD-50 oil where you bring your own jug is about $15/gallon average at dealers.
If you pay retail for a 1 gallon factory jug of XD-50, as posted earlier, it's about $23.
jimh posted 09-08-2005 07:45 AM ET (US)
To summarize the approximate oil prices mentioned:
XD-30 = $ 12/gallon
XD-50 = $ 15/gallon
XD-100 = $30/gallon
(based on buying from a bulk oil drum)
David Ratusnik posted 09-08-2005 06:54 PM ET (US)
Gotta love the smell of a two stroke-- takes me back to fishing and watersports on Lake Erie-- a blast! D
fourdfish posted 09-08-2005 10:21 PM ET (US)
According to the EPA, Coast Guard and BRP the cleanest burning outboard (2stroke and 4 stroke) on the market today is the Evinrude E-TEC. The EPA gave BRP an award for it. Should you not believe me check it out.
jiffy posted 07-10-2007 12:30 PM ET (US)
I have a 1985 mariner 40 hp outboard and just started using pennzoil fully synthetic 2 stroke oil - it sounds better smokes less and also increased the boat speed about 3 mph - using a 50:1 mix 89 octane almost no smoke - you can puchase the oil from west marine - $30 per gallon it is well worth it
Tarpun posted 07-10-2007 02:28 PM ET (US)
Keltonkrew is right. I switched to Amsoil and the smoke was greatly minimized. Another benefit of Amsoil is that it contains a ring-free type additive to minimize carbon deposits. Also seemed to improve my idle. About $24/gal.
Sal DiMercurio posted 07-10-2007 03:23 PM ET (US)
I run XD50 in my 2000 FICHT & started using it in my 1980 - 15 hp kicker.
The XD 50 cleaned that engine out along with a good shot of engine tuner & even at troll, not a wiff of snmoke.
I just bought 5 gallons [ bulk 5 gallon can ] XD 50 at the "Outboard Motor Shop" in Oakland, [ also Boston Whaler dealer ] , & they charged me $125.00 for 5 gallons, with tax on top.
I think they are getting carried away.
The guy that sold it to me said, oh hell, oil has gone "WAY" up, but it only seems to go up at certain places & not others.
Earlier this year I bought a 5 gallon can of XD 50 for $95.00 from another shop.
A $30.00 jump in 5 gallons of bulk oil in 6 mos, is not my idea of fair pricing.
I realize these guys are higher than anyone else, & everyone is entitled to a fair profit, but this is out of line in my book.
Trouble is, not many Bombardier dealers around here carry XD-50 oil in bulk.
I will think twice before going back to them for oil & other things.....[ sorry craig, but this is out of line ].
There's the ...MSRP. which should also read [ if you can get it ] & to go above that is a slap in the face.
Sal
towboater posted 07-11-2007 01:32 AM ET (US)
older two stroke smoke & smell...I feel like Robert Duval in Apocalypse Now taking a deep breath, bringing both hands to his chest & smiling..."ahh, I love the smell of napalm in the morning".
Waking up in the morning, rolling out of a sleeping bag & look across the steam laying on top of the glass lake. Then a 120 hp merc fires up and we would absolutely torment the peace and quiet on slalom skis.
Yes, like an old forgotten tune, two stroke smoke & smell takes me back to the good ol days.
mk


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Author	Topic: Two-stroke Smokeless, Odorless Oil
lureman	posted 09-05-2005 07:22 PM ET (US) I have an Evinrude 9.9-HP two-stroke I use as a kicker motor. I hate the smell and smoke of a two-stroke. Other than buying a four-stroke--which is where I am headed--what is the best odorless, smokeless two-stroke oil? Thank you
Buckda	posted 09-05-2005 07:30 PM ET (US) Two strokes don't have to smoke a lot, although some smoke more than others. I have a 1970 Johnson 6 HP two-stroke that hardly smokes at all. On the other hand, my 1986 Mercury 150 smokes quite a bit when at idle (but at speed, she runs pretty clean). I'd suggest trying an OEM oil from the manufacturer of your engine, followed by a tune-up from your mechanic. If you're mixing your oil, there's not a lot you can do for smoke at idle. The engine may only need 100 to 1 oiling at idle, but if you've mixed it at 50 to 1 for running at speed, there is going to be extra oil in the mix when you're going slow. The real question becomes "How much" do you hate that smell? A new 9.9 HP four-stroke kicker will likely cost about 2,000 dollars or more and you'll likely only get a few hundered dollars on the two-stroke. That boils down to a $1,500 solution to your problem, but a guaranteed solution. Tuning the current motor and using a premium grade oil (OEM) may solve, or at least ease the problem in the meantime. Dave
lureman	posted 09-05-2005 07:38 PM ET (US) Thank you for the reply. I should have stated I use the motor to troll 90% of the time and at 1-3 mph the smell is much worse. at running speed its fine. I am using regular PENNZOIL™ two-stroke. I thought about leaning it out but don't think it would be good for the times I run it hard. I have a new 115 EFI four-stroke as my main motor and I guess it has spoiled me.
keltonkrew	posted 09-05-2005 08:59 PM ET (US) I use AMSOIL injector oil and mix premix 50:1. No smoke whatsoever. My neighbors.....all their boat's smoke like a chimney...I never have any smoke and boat runs/idles great....never had a problem with it.
Teak Oil	posted 09-06-2005 09:59 AM ET (US) I can tell you don't use Quicksilver oil, it makes you look like an old time whaling ship. Evinrude XD25 amd XD30 oils are pretty good. Right now I am using cheap West Marine oil and its better than the Quicksilver junk
edfish	posted 09-06-2005 02:31 PM ET (US) Hello to all. If you want to have an engine that does not give you that oil burning smell or smoke then the four-stroke is the way to go. I have been using my twin Mercury 75-HP four-strokes for five years now with 2,800 hours on them each, and I never get smoked out. You might smell some exaust occasionally, but, it is not that burning oil smell. Actually, the only time I smell the exaust is when I am tied up at the dock with the wind blowing directly back into the boat. On the ocean I never smell anything. The newer two-strokes are much better than the old ones, but, they still burn oil. Very little at trolling speed, however. The drawback to the four-stroke is that you will have to change oil and filter at least every 100hrs. I change the oil and filter every 80hrs. Oil is cheap compared to an engine. The best of luck to you whatever you choose. Ed Tavas. F/V Friendship
BOB KEMMLER JR	posted 09-06-2005 02:51 PM ET (US) edfish--When they come out with four-stroke's that weigh the same as same hp two-strokes, I'll gladly make the switch. Until then I will enjoy the sweet smell of blue smoke,it can be a nice way to take the edge off a week too (better than beer) ; o )
lureman	posted 09-06-2005 03:57 PM ET (US) I have a new 115 Mercury EFI four-stroke as my main motor and guess it has spoiled me.
Teak Oil	posted 09-06-2005 11:31 PM ET (US) I am with Bob, I take the smoke because with it comes an engine with the balls to put a smile on my face when I hear that sweet two stroke roar!
Hal Watkins	posted 09-07-2005 12:07 AM ET (US) My Evinrude 60-HP VRO has always been fed OMC XD-25 or XD-30. I recently switched to OMC XD-50. My wife has commented since I switched that she hasn't noticed as much smoke or smell. So XD-50 passes the wife test!
jimh	posted 09-07-2005 08:07 AM ET (US) The memory recall associated with the sense of smell is very strong. I find that the smell of two-stroke engines elicits recall of many very pleasant memories of previous boating, and I do not find it objectionable. Seeing a little smoke from my outboard motor at start up or idle does not bother me, and, in fact, I find it reassuring because it is a sign the engine has been getting some lubricating oil. The most exotic (or expensive) oil I have tried is BRP XD-30. It still smokes. I do not find the smell to be particularly offensive. I do find the exhaust of a Mercury classic two-stroke burning WALMART Super-Tech oil to be rather pleasant. It really takes me back to my youth and reminds me of boating as a kid.
seahorse	posted 09-07-2005 08:42 AM ET (US) As long as the motor is in a good state of tune and that the thermostat is working correctly, the Johnson/Evinrude XD-50 semi-synthetic oil will cut down the smoke immensely. To almost eliminate the smoke and smell, the fully synthetic oil XD-100 works fine and it also cleans up the internals of your motor. It is a lot more expensive, about $30/gallon, but that would last several seasons, depending how much you use your 9.9 annually.
Teak Oil	posted 09-07-2005 10:14 PM ET (US) How much for a gallon of XD50?
onlyawhaler	posted 09-07-2005 10:47 PM ET (US) I have switched to Evinrude XD-50 as well and I noticed an improvement over the older Johnson TCW-3 oil. It is a synthetic blend, the XD-100 I believe is a complete synthetic oil The XD-50 in our area is about $23 dollars a gallon.
BOB KEMMLER JR	posted 09-08-2005 12:08 AM ET (US) Jim-I'm with you on the memory recall thing.Another sure fire way to bring back memories is the burble of a inboard v8,reminds me of my great uncles 1969 32 pacemaker with the 318 in it.Didn't Robert Duvall say "I love the smell of 2 stroke oil in the morning"?and "bayliner owners don't surf" lol
seahorse	posted 09-08-2005 01:47 AM ET (US) Teak Oil, Bulk XD-50 oil where you bring your own jug is about $15/gallon average at dealers. If you pay retail for a 1 gallon factory jug of XD-50, as posted earlier, it's about $23.
jimh	posted 09-08-2005 07:45 AM ET (US) To summarize the approximate oil prices mentioned: XD-30 = $ 12/gallon XD-50 = $ 15/gallon XD-100 = $30/gallon (based on buying from a bulk oil drum)
David Ratusnik	posted 09-08-2005 06:54 PM ET (US) Gotta love the smell of a two stroke-- takes me back to fishing and watersports on Lake Erie-- a blast! D
fourdfish	posted 09-08-2005 10:21 PM ET (US) According to the EPA, Coast Guard and BRP the cleanest burning outboard (2stroke and 4 stroke) on the market today is the Evinrude E-TEC. The EPA gave BRP an award for it. Should you not believe me check it out.
jiffy	posted 07-10-2007 12:30 PM ET (US) I have a 1985 mariner 40 hp outboard and just started using pennzoil fully synthetic 2 stroke oil - it sounds better smokes less and also increased the boat speed about 3 mph - using a 50:1 mix 89 octane almost no smoke - you can puchase the oil from west marine - $30 per gallon it is well worth it
Tarpun	posted 07-10-2007 02:28 PM ET (US) Keltonkrew is right. I switched to Amsoil and the smoke was greatly minimized. Another benefit of Amsoil is that it contains a ring-free type additive to minimize carbon deposits. Also seemed to improve my idle. About $24/gal.
Sal DiMercurio	posted 07-10-2007 03:23 PM ET (US) I run XD50 in my 2000 FICHT & started using it in my 1980 - 15 hp kicker. The XD 50 cleaned that engine out along with a good shot of engine tuner & even at troll, not a wiff of snmoke. I just bought 5 gallons [ bulk 5 gallon can ] XD 50 at the "Outboard Motor Shop" in Oakland, [ also Boston Whaler dealer ] , & they charged me $125.00 for 5 gallons, with tax on top. I think they are getting carried away. The guy that sold it to me said, oh hell, oil has gone "WAY" up, but it only seems to go up at certain places & not others. Earlier this year I bought a 5 gallon can of XD 50 for $95.00 from another shop. A $30.00 jump in 5 gallons of bulk oil in 6 mos, is not my idea of fair pricing. I realize these guys are higher than anyone else, & everyone is entitled to a fair profit, but this is out of line in my book. Trouble is, not many Bombardier dealers around here carry XD-50 oil in bulk. I will think twice before going back to them for oil & other things.....[ sorry craig, but this is out of line ]. There's the ...MSRP. which should also read [ if you can get it ] & to go above that is a slap in the face. Sal
towboater	posted 07-11-2007 01:32 AM ET (US) older two stroke smoke & smell...I feel like Robert Duval in Apocalypse Now taking a deep breath, bringing both hands to his chest & smiling..."ahh, I love the smell of napalm in the morning". Waking up in the morning, rolling out of a sleeping bag & look across the steam laying on top of the glass lake. Then a 120 hp merc fires up and we would absolutely torment the peace and quiet on slalom skis. Yes, like an old forgotten tune, two stroke smoke & smell takes me back to the good ol days. mk