posted 06-03-2000 10:01 AM ET (US)            

--jimh

posted 06-04-2000 04:31 PM ET (US)         

Sorry to say the company and the boats are one and the same --- hard to separate --- at each shift in ownership the "boats" changed for the good or for the whatever --- in fact some of the "originals" as we like to classify prior to xxxx year were in fact poorly designed looking back in retrospect (at least for the task they were promoted to preform)--- so whether it be Brunswick or any other company that might have purchased Whaler one thing remains true --- no business can remain static they have to move with the trends of the current market-- they have to optimize the manufacturing process and reduce cost in a fine juggling act so as not to reduce quality to a point where folks are turned off --- some folks may not care for the newer Whalers --- so what--- that's their opinion and there welcome to it (in some vocal cases they are better off to keep it to themselves in stead of making a fool of themselves) --- however if Whaler had stayed with their antiquated designs we just might not have a Boston Whaler company today --- think about it --- the market isn't static and competition is strong a lot of fine boats out there and BW had to respond --- just my thoughts on the subject of "boats" and the manufacture -- Thomas

posted 06-05-2000 03:32 AM ET (US)         

Manufacturers read these groups, and comments from owners are important. Censoring may benefit your future aspirations, but it restricts this forum from carrying our message back to the manufacturer!

posted 06-05-2000 09:50 AM ET (US)            

This past winter I decided that I needed a bigger boat. I sold my 1982 13' for what my grandfather paid for it in 1984 and started looking for something else. Among the boats that I looked at were "classic" Montalks a Newport and one of the really pretty 16/17's with the wood console. My initial thought was that I would buy an old boat and repower. The boat that I (chose, liked, decided upon) after months of scrutiny was a 15 Dauntless. It just seemed like it did everything that I needed it to do the best.

Point being, there were tons of options in the market. There were two real reasons that I made my decision.

1) The boat rides great. My wife can get off of it after an afternoon and not have her back (and front) sore from the pounding.
2) No wood. I hate spending time in the driveway refinishing mahogany teak etc...IMHO this is why fiberglass boats were invented. Heck, I put 90 miles under the keel this weekend, hosed the boat off and covered it.

As far as the quality issue goes, the day that the bowling ball company built my boat they were all about the business of building boats. The hull is solid as a rock, all the add on components are top quality and they are installed correctly.

Jim, please edit my comments away if you have to and lets get down to the business of helping each other out with the boats.

posted 06-05-2000 10:14 AM ET (US)            

There have only been a few sentences removed from the postings of ONE person.

Because of this, another fellow decided to leave in a huff and sent off a parting shot that was all about me/my website/how I ought to run it/how poor the information on it was, etc, and not about boats. I removed that message. He was free to leave, and I don't think I am under any obligation to him to publish in perpertuity his rather harsh parting comments.

I don't think this is quite CENSORSHIP.

The goal for the FORUM is good information about boats, and not ad hominen attacks on people, boats, or corporations

And if someone starts posting information about nutritional supplements or how to find spiritual salvation, that stuff is going to get removed, too.

In removing this tiny bit of material I seemed to have caused quite a stir.

I clearly made note that I was deleting material.

The material removed was really not significant in information content.

I removed it because in my view its publication would tend to reduce the likelyhood that others would partipate in the discussion.

After someone pees in the swimming pool, people are reluctant to jump in for a swim.

In addition, the reputation of this website,
and my reputation as the publisher of it, and also your reputation as an fellow participant and fellow owner of Boston Whaler boats, is not enhanced by contributions that endlessly and continuously tend toward the same theme, that is, the theme that a certain corporation is the evil spawn of Satan, etc.

This whole topic area, Neo-Classic Whalers, was created because there are people who would like to discuss their newer boats and their newer boats features and problems and performance.

There is room for them, for their postings, and for their opinions, on this website and in this community of Whaler owners.

Before they even get a chance to show up and post, they should not be bombarded with negativity.

posted 06-05-2000 11:41 AM ET (US)         

As for my "parting shot", I knew that you couldn't take it. I offered you some sound advice about you website. You have obviously construed that as bashing. The current discussions in the forum about steering(no responses), bearings(couldn't find the link),and the electical item, among others, reinforce my claim that the technical content IS weak. I didn't say POOR, just weak. If you want a well-rounded site, I think you need to address these matters.

Jim, you are way too personally involved and way too sensitive. But as I said in my now deleted post, it's your party!

For anyone that is interested in what I actually posted, I retained a copy of the posting. I would be happy to e-mail it to anyone who would care.

Now, I am finished!

posted 06-05-2000 12:02 PM ET (US)         

We just got Amy's Whaler up from Clark Roberts after 1100 miles plus on the Intercoastal Waterway --- myself, wife and 8 year old daughter all had a great adventure -- however I could start to go into a lot of detail how our "87-- 27 could have been better designed just as I could start on how our 20'-- 78 Outrage was one of the worst riding boats in heavy chop I have ever driven or ridden on --- guess my "point" is that anything and everything can be criticized!!

posted 06-06-2000 10:53 PM ET (US)         

Louie

posted 06-07-2000 07:00 AM ET (US)            

Would you agree that my Conquest,based on my description, is not stern heavy? I think of
stern heavy being a boat which sits at a very low and at a sharp angle to the stern when at rest, so maybe my definition is not the same as yours. Thanks........

posted 06-07-2000 08:27 AM ET (US)            

Stern heavy, no. My 15' Dauntless has a 75hp Merc on the back (300lbs) and sits flat and level in the water. This weekend I was running down the Potomac with my wife and sister in law sitting on the stern bench and the boat ran great...

I also wanted to thank Jim for his efforts with this site. I have learned so much from the really "whaler knowledgeable" people that have taken up residence here...

posted 06-07-2000 10:35 AM ET (US)         

Whaler will ship with no rigging (ie no guages or throttle fed to the transom.

The boat must be factory ordered

There is a discount applicable

The commercial division will rig with any power.

Louie

posted 06-07-2000 11:43 AM ET (US)            

Ahhh, conflicting info, to often the way of the world. I am just repeating what I was told. The dealer that I talked to routinely rigged with Honda and found that customers would pay the premium for both the motor and the rigging. By the way, love your boat...the black rails and cleats look awesome!!!

posted 06-07-2000 10:37 PM ET (US)         

Louie

posted 06-09-2000 07:56 AM ET (US)         

However, I think any dealer which say handles OMC or Yamaha (carries BW and Mercs) has plenty of margin to offset any package deal on an engine from a boat/engine manufacture --- if the customer wants something other with the boat and the dealer wants the sale (most do) they'll handle it competitively.
I don't shed any tears for boat dealers, just like I don't for car dealers either, and their margins!!

That brings me to another point. How does the typical boat buyer --- "BUY" --- just like autos the "package" deal, even so called "custom" ordered autos force you to choose the "packages" just like a Chinese menu choose one from column A and one from column B but if you want one from column C you have to substitute the one from column A for etc. etc. --- chuckle chuckle --- no secret there and in the boat industry particularly in the non-custom boats I would venture to say probably over 90% of new boats are sold this way ( have been for quit awhile) --- the small percent of educated customers which analyze/research their purchase or have a particular preference based on previous experience is a relative small handful of individuals --- (might add to this the big question --- "how much are the monthly payments" which is definitely for most folks part of the purchase equation)

So does this mean you will have to pay more for what you want outside of the packages? --- NO --- the customer can always shop --- spend a little effort and generally it pays off --- always take the "bull" a dealer throws out with a grain of salt, your the one paying the money and it is your right to negotiate the best deal and the equipment you want --- if that doesn't fly with a particular dealer pick up your brief case and move on to another --- their still is plenty of competition out there --- ( if you can never finance through the dealer)

Nothing is written that says you have to buy your engine from the dealer selling you the boat either, granted more convenient! At least in the NE plenty of outboard dealers who will be more than happy to sell you just the engines and do the rigging at very competitive pricing, just have to drive your new boat in---

Case in point, talking to a fellow up in Mass. the other day said the dealer didn't handle OMC's but was happy just to sell him the boat (this was not a BW) as he wanted equipped less motors -- said he went out shopping for two big OMC's --- funny out of three dealers he received prices from as high as $28,000 to a low of $19,500 on the same units rigged out on his new boat --- needless to say he is very happy with the $19,500 installation ----

posted 06-09-2000 02:47 PM ET (US)         

The word I have is that boats will come from the factory WITH the Merc engine already installed and rigged, either per Whaler's recommended power, the Dealers showroom inventory order, or a customers special order, which could take about 2-3 months. I know of a Dealer who has been OMC and Yahama for years, and when I checked out his new Whaler inventory, at least 90% came from the factory with Mercs. So something is going on here.

posted 06-20-2000 10:47 AM ET (US)         

I just bought a 1996 20 foot Dauntless and now I'm wondering what I got. I know the BW experts on this board know the answer. Who owned BW in 1996 when they produced the Dauntless? I was told the 20 Dauntless is the same hull design as the 20 Ventura, is that true? I realize that Brunswick owns both BW and Bayliner but was assured that the production of the BW was separate from the Bayliner, true? Is it also separate from the production of Sea Ray?

I took the boat for a sea trial last weekend in Buzzards Bay (Cape Cod) and it was comforatble and surpisingly dry given the wave and wind conditions. Although I didn't notice any problem, I've been told that the hull design for the 20 Dauntless causes the boat to porpoise. Has anyone else heard of this problem? If there is a hull design problem why would BW continue to sell the same hull which has been relabelled the Ventura 20?