CONTINUOUSWAVE

Q1: how can the below-deck fuel tank in a 2008 190 OUTRAGE be reached?

BACKSTORY
On my 2008 190 OUTRAGE the fuel in the tank is not reaching the fuel-water separating filter. I think the cause may be fuel tank pick-up or the anti-siphon valve. The fuel-water separating filter contains only a small volume of gasoline, and I know from past experience the filter should be filled to full with gasoline.

When I connected an external fuel tank to the auxiliary propulsion engine, that engine ran fine.

The last time I ran both [the main and auxiliary propulsion engines], both engines ran for several minutes, then stalled, and neither would re-start. My inference was both engines ran out of gasoline.


Q2: would blowing air into the fuel line at the point where the fuel line connects to the fuel-water separating filter result in something "good"?

We need a drawing of the fuel line routing and fittings along the way.

There are too many unknowns.

Draw up what it looks like it, take a photo with your phone and post it here.

Phil T wrote:We need a drawing of the fuel line routing and fittings along the way.

There's not much to [the fuel lines and their routing]: a fuel line runs from the [fuel tank] pick-up and anti-siphon valve to the fuel-water separating filter. The fuel line [does not] first run to a primer bulb.



ASIDE: I wasn't able to attach a larger picture due to a size limit.
[Moderator's note: The forum permits much larger images than the size chosen above. Please see a new thread that is discussing this alleged problem. Boating forums do not discuss difficulties that participants encounter in trying to use the forum software.]

MJH wrote:Q1: how can the below-deck fuel tank in a 2008 190 OUTRAGE be reached?

Generally Boston Whaler provides a means to reach the below-deck fuel tank by a removable section of the deck. In some instances a large rectangular section of the deck can be unattached from the hull to reveal the fuel tank area. Also, pry-out access plates in the deck provide access to elements of the fuel system that are below the deck level, such as the fuel hose that attaches at the fuel tank to the fuel tank pick-up.

A close visual inspection of the deck should reveal if the entire deck can be removed, and should also reveal the existence of any removable deck access plates.

Complete removal of the deck covering the fuel tank area seems unnecessary in the resolution of the problem being discussed in this thread.

MJH wrote:The fuel line [does not] first run to a primer bulb.

The installation instructions for fuel-water separating filters (particularly the filters made by RACOR) usually specify that the filter is to be installed on the suction side of any primer bulb in the fuel hose.

My inference for the filter manufacturer giving that advice or recommendation is to prevent someone from installing the filter downstream of the primer bulb and then possibly forcing debris through the filter media of the fuel filter by squeezing extremely forcefully on the primer bulb and creating excessive pressure that could rupture the filter element.

Another element of the location of the primer bulb in the fuel hose is to have it oriented vertically, with the direction of fuel flow (as indicated typically be an arrow symbol on the primer bulb) pointing upward. Orienting the primer bulb in that direction enhances the action of the check valves in the primer bulb assembly, as when the primer bulb is closed the weight of the fuel in the fuel line above the check valve will help to keep the check valve closed, preventing fuel from draining out of the downstream portion of the fuel line.

Also, in many modern outboard engines the fuel pump is operated by electricity, as opposed to a fuel pump in older outboard engines where the fuel pump was an air motor that relied on engine crankcase vacuum pulses to produce the mechanical movement of the diaphragm of the fuel pump. In engines with an electrically operated fuel pump one often finds that having a primer bulb in the fuel line is no longer necessary or even recommended.

Regarding the anti-siphon valve installed at the fuel tank pick-up, problems with that valve could also affect fuel flow to the engine, in two ways. If the amount of suction (vacuum) in the fuel system is not great enough to overcome the spring force that holds the check valve closed, flow of fuel will be restricted. At the other end of the spectrum, if the check valve fails to remain closed when there is no suction in the fuel system, then fuel can drain back into the fuel tank (by gravity), resulting in very difficult engine starting.

If a fuel system does not have a primer bulb (which has its own check valve) then having a check valve at the fuel tank outlet is probably necessary. Without any check valve in the fuel system, gravity would tend to allow fuel to drain out of the hoses and back to the tank, which would make engine starting much more difficult.

Since the check valve at the fuel tank occurs before any filtering (other than a coarse screen filter that is typically provided at the bottom of the fuel pick-up in the fuel tank itself), debris could cause the check valve to remain open.

Short answer: most likely you have a degraded/collapsed fuel line somewhere between the tank pickup and the engine, and probably between the pickup and the fuel filter (since you say the filter is empty). If these are the original hoses then I think there's good reason to question their integrity, and it won't be a waste of your time to just replace them. There's been lots of discussion here and elsewhere about black vs. gray fuel line, see https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewto ... end+or+foe for my experience a few years ago.

It's also possible that the pickup tube that runs from the anti-siphon valve into the tank is bad, or that the anti-siphon valve itself is bad (though that seems less likely), or that there's some debris in the tank that has been sucked up onto/into the pickup tube, so take a look while you're in there. I wouldn't suggest blowing air back through the line, since if there's some debris in there you might clear it but it'll probably just get picked up again, usually at the least convenient moment.

Long rambling answer, probably none of which is really relevant to MJH's problem: Whaler makes a fabulous resource available in their collection of online drawings. What a treasure trove, and it would be a slightly better world if all manufacturers did this. So let's take a look at what we can see.

Starting with the "Hull Outfit Equipment" diagram (https://www.bostonwhaler.com/content/da ... t-2008.pdf). This diagram clearly shows that there's a "fuel tank cover sub-assembly" (part 08) that covers the fuel tank cavity, and it has access ports over (fwd-to-aft) the filler/vent connection, the sender unit, and the pickup.

Next let's look at the "Fuel System Assembly" diagram (https://www.bostonwhaler.com/content/da ... t-2008.pdf). This one tells us some interesting things. First, we can confirm from pg. 1 that the access ports are where we thought they were. More interesting to me is pg. 3, which shows the fuel line (16) running from the tank pickup to the "engine / primer bulb". Missing from this diagram is a fuel filter. But no, we didn't miss it... if we look at pg. 5 we see that part number 19 "filter, in-line fuel/water separater" (sic) has been removed from the diagram in revision G, I, and/or J. Returning to pg. 1 and the revision history, we see that revision J deleted the fuel filter (and associated fittings) for the 2007 model year as of 6/20/2006. So there should be no fuel filter, yet MJH reports a fuel filter. Was it factory-installed despite being removed from the drawing? Was it dealer-installed? Was it installed by an earlier owner? Interesting questions with no clear answer.

Finally we'll take a quick look at the "Engine Installation" diagram (https://www.bostonwhaler.com/content/da ... t-2008.pdf). Page 1 shows a primer bulb (9), though it also lists it as an option and affected by revision X of the diagram. Unfortunately there's no good cross-reference for option details, and the notes for revision X aren't that helpful, so we can't tell for sure whether there's always a primer bulb or whether it's some kind of option, probably related to the selected engine. But since MJH reports that there is no primer bulb, it was probably an option that was installed with a different engine.

-Bob

Bob--your reply was full of excellent information. Thanks for digging up the URL links to the drawings available on the Boston Whaler website.

I agree with your somewhat cautious advice to look carefully at any fuel hose that has a metallic-looking gray outer jacket finish. Those hoses are infamous for delaminating, particularly if the gasoline fuel has been diluted with ethanol corn alcohol.

Jim/Bob:

Thanks for the helpful info.

There are two access ports as seen in the diagram. The forward one provides excellent access to the sender unit. However, the other access port provides access to the water separating filter but the intake and anti-siphon valve are forward of the opening. I'll measure it, but I'd guess it's about 18"' from the opening. That kind of makes it difficult to remove and check it. That was the reason I was asking about removing the "fuel tank cover sub-assembly" (part 08) that covers the fuel tank cavity. Not something I want to do but I don't think the access ports provide enough access???

I'm planning on taking a look tomorrow about access to the fuel system with another set of eyes.

I'll report back with our findings.

Thanks again for the help.

Marc

I got a buddy of mine to help with getting to the fuel pickup and anti-siphon valve. We were able to remove the fuel pickup and the anti-siphon valve. We had to reach about 18 inches under the deck through the access port which made it very challenging to reach and get a wrench on it.





The installation of the new fuel pickup and anti-siphon valve was relatively easy. I'll replace the old fuel line next week and hopefully that resolves my initial problem.

Marc

Marc - that photo is priceless!

I have now replaced the fuel tank pickup, the anti-siphon valve, and the fuel line. Both engine now run fine.

Thanks again for the suggestions.

Marc

Your friend appears to have gone head-over-heels--err, heels-over-head--in helping you.

MJH wrote:I have now replaced the fuel tank pickup, the anti-siphon valve, and the fuel line. Both engine now run fine.

Great news!