posted 02-04-2008 02:15 AM ET (US)            

And it depends on the protection. Islands usually have a
sheltered side.

posted 02-04-2008 06:27 AM ET (US)            

This is from a BW Sport 15 user of 20 years experience.

posted 02-04-2008 10:33 AM ET (US)            

I've done a great deal of cruising in the Inland Passage and Gulf Islands and I would say you can have a lot of fun and be safe with a 15 footer if you use common sense and be careful. With so many Islands so close together there will be countless pretty places to stay out of trouble with a small boat.

Until you get that experience you mentioned, just avoid the many wide passages where strong tidal currents opposed by strong breezes can turn safe water into a death trap in 30 minutes. Don't underestimate the Strait of Juan de Fuca and the Strait of Georgia. And carry a waterproof chart on board; its easy to lose track of where you are with so may little inlets passages between so many islands. That is one the of the things that makes the area so beautiful.

You'll have a great time.

posted 02-04-2008 05:01 PM ET (US)            

So, you'll need to clarify a bit.

If you're talking about boating in the San Juan and Gulf Islands, I think a 15' is well suited, so long as you carry charts and keep a weather eye. If the chop picks up, you may find yourself ducking for cover. Winter is best to avoid.

If you're talking about crossing the straights, either Juan deFuca or Georgia (or Haro for that matter), I think you need to be careful. On a calm day, it would be a fun, but rather boring, ride. But don't let clear skies fool you; a stiff breeze can kick up quite a swell out there in not a lot of time. The 15' can handle most of what the straights can dish out, if the operator knows what they are doing. I highly recommend a chartplotting GPS and a pre-determined route. VHF is a must-have in that area; first for monitoring for commercial traffic, second for calling for help if you get in trouble, and third for checking weather reports. I say the GPS because, I find plotting a triangulated position on a paper chart in a boat that size to be difficult, even when the water is flat. But when you get out there and the swells are rolling, it's damn near impossible. You'll have to stop to do it, which will cause the bow to swing around downwind, which will cause the swells to start coming over the stern. Not safe by any measure. But you can definitely get out there and lose your bearings, especially if there's a swell running. So you need to be able to know your position and heading, or you can get into real trouble.

posted 02-04-2008 05:56 PM ET (US)            

If you run it slow... it'll handle lots more than the people aboard can. You'll be BEGGING to get off long before it's unsafe. Just go slow... and be ready to use the throttle a lot to climb up the swell faces and to coast down the backside.

You'll be soaked... just part of life.

If you bury the bow (which one day you will), just use a little throttle to raise the bow, run it out over the transom, and let the pump do it's job. If you ship water more often than "ocassionally", think about just pulling the plug and she'll keep herself dry enough for safety and relative comfort.

Wear good rubber soled shoes, and don't hesitate to buy one of the rubber helm-pads for underfoot: You can bruise your feet pretty badly after a few hours of this.

Wear a self inflating life jacket (all hands) and use the engine shutoff lanyard even if you have another person in the boat. With murphys law, if one of you gets pitched out, both will.

Think about self-recovery techniques, IE: "How do I get back aboard from the water". I leave a loop of line snapped to the lift-ring on the inside of the transom with a rubber band of inner-tube rubber holding it as a bundle. I can reach into the boat from the water, drag it overboard, and pull it free to make a foot-loop to climb back in. Costs little, might save your life.

I've had 15's and 17's in short period 6-8 footers and been OK... not happy, but safe. I've had them in long period ground swells of 8-12 feet and it was FUN!!!

Dave

posted 02-04-2008 10:30 PM ET (US)            

It was not fun, and I got quite wet, but I was able to keep the bow trimmed way up and quarter into the waves reasonably well at a slow plane. I never stuffed seriously stuffed the bow, but I did takes some green water on several occasions. When I could turn downhill, that was a piece of cake. I just kept it on the backside of a wave, or went just a tisch faster than the wave train.

At idle, it was uncomfortable, but in no way felt unsafe.

The pucker factor was quite high initially, but I did get a sense for the boat pretty quickly. It would have been exhausting to do it for more than an hour or so. I only had 6 or 8 miles to go, and was quite glad to pull behind the island when I did.

posted 02-04-2008 11:33 PM ET (US)            

I will be prepared for my trip in the juan da fuca islands.

I have installed a bilge pump with an auto float switch in the back sump. this is if any water comes in the boat, i can remove it quickly. I also have a gps. I do know how weather can turn in an instance.

kemp lindsey, I'm still in the process of planning the trip. not sure what islands i'll visit. any advice will be greatfull. will be going the first week of august

mike

posted 02-05-2008 10:13 AM ET (US)            

As someone who regularly runs these in an environment where we fill them "to the brim' on about one out of three trips, spearfishing in The Race (HUGE rips between Connecticut and Long Island), let me comment on this:

" I have installed a bilge pump with an auto float switch in the back sump. this is if any water comes in the boat, i can remove it quickly."

If you REALLY think you might fill one of these up, NO PUMP that fits in the back sump is large enough.

Think this over for a second: Do I need a larger pump in my 42 Grand Banks, or in my Whaler?

Answer: In my Whaler. In the 42 footer, I am only likely to be able to take aboard whatever water comes in thru a broken hose until I get the seacock closed, and (literally) 5000 *gallons* of water in the bilge is a drop in the bucket. I carry 1000 gallons of fresh water in tanks, another 1000 gallons of diesel, and her waterline full of fuel and water or empty changes about 3 inches... The bottom line is that I can pump 5000 gallons out at leisure.

In the Whaler, I can re-fill the boat continuously in a really heavy sea state, and 500 gallons of water there is FULL. You want to be able to get it out NOW. No, the boat will not sink if filled, but it becomes a WHOLE lot less stable. We have rolled them over more than once.

In my experience, we have (3) different levels of dewatering a Whaler:

(1): RUNNING IT OUT: When we take a hull full of blue water aboard, the first thing we do is to head the boat 'uphill' and accellerate the engine to SLOSH the water over the transom. This is where having sufficient power is essential. Yeah, you can plane on 40 horses... but can you accellerate with a hull full of water? In rough seas it might mean your life.

(2): CRASH PUMP it out. In our boats, we mount a 1500 GPM (yeah, one thousand, five hundred gallons per minute) pump on the deck in one of the aft corners with a float switch. This is for GROSS DEWATERING, and it only comes on if there is more than about 2 inches of water in the hull. Generally if we take blue water, this pump will trigger for 10 seconds or so, and when it quits, we're just 'damp'.

(3) FINISH THE JOB. This is where the 'little pump' in the rear well comes in. It finishess the job, and is the pump that keeps her dry under "normal' use. Rainwater, spray, water from the kids swimming and coming aboard, etc.. that's what this pump is for.

This system works, and it works well. I am often amazed at the tiny pumps that folks mount in their boats. The smaller the boat, the bigger the pump: I can ignore 500 gallons of water in my Trawler, but 500 gallons in the Whaler in rough seas needs to get gone NOW.

Best,

Dave

posted 02-05-2008 02:36 PM ET (US)            

Having owned a classic 15' Sport (1989) and used it on the Great Lakes, I can concur that you may wish to consider a larger Whaler...perhaps a 17' Montauk or other 17' model (the Newport is nice for touring with folks aboard).

My 15' would indeed have a tendency to "stuff" the bow when idling into the face of steep waves. It made trolling on Lake Michigan nearly impossible in anything over 3' chop, unless you really wanted to get wet.

I pushed my 15' Hull further than I probably should have - running across the North Channel of Lake Huron (60 miles of open water) in 2003 or 2004, but after that trip, I realized I needed a bigger boat, and began my search for a nice 17' Montauk or 18' Outrage. I found the Outrage and believe it is one of the most capable "coastal" Whalers around - meaning it can venture offshore in moderate conditions and handles big bays and big inland lakes well. There are still days on Lakes Erie, Huron or Michigan that I've yearned for a few more feet at waterline and had the headache when I got home to remind me that it's still an 18' boat.

Regarding dewatering a boat in rough seas, I agree with the above posts. My 18' Outrage has a 1,500 GPH pump in the splashwell, and a second 1,000 GPH pump in the sump...but when I'm in the rough stuff, I simply pull the plugs and let the spray and any green water (when in the REALLY rough stuff) flow out as it comes in. To date, I've not yet stuffed the bow and put a tremendous amount of water on deck - but I'm confident that with 180 HP and a big transom notch, I can evacuate the majority of that water in short order and let the open drains do the rest via the venturi effect.

posted 02-05-2008 04:46 PM ET (US)            

Yes, the 42GB has custom tanks, new stainless ones. Basic fuel on them is 600 Diesel and 300 Water. I set this one up for long distance cruising in the Carribean, using saddle tanks, and I'm* never* gonna change those damned things again (or buy water in the islands for more than the cost of Diesel)! Once is enough on changing tanks.

The difference in seakeeping between a 15 and a 17 is 'noticable', but each will take more after the folks aboard have said "Holy CRAP!" for the 1000th time....

Tell you what, though: It's confidence inspiring to stuff the nose, take a few hundred gallons of green water aboard, and see how the boat handles it. Take a lot to get the bow under, with the flare they have decent reserve bouyancy, but it can be done. We've also taken green water over the transom while holding position to bring a diver aboard... and again, seeing how the boats behave is really awesome. These things are safe..... just do like my Grandpa taught me so long ago when he said "Son, Never turn your back on the Sea..."

Dave

==============================================

"Toll the bell, call up the ghosts, summon out the lifesavers and the pirates.The shoals are there still, the winds howl loud, the rain beats down, the waves burst strong. Some night, in the chill darkness, someone will make a mistake: The sea will show him no mercy".

posted 02-05-2008 06:42 PM ET (US)            

Being a relatively new power boater I got flustered this summer the one time I took about 3 gallons over the bow of my Sport 130 from a boat wake. It sure is reassuring to hear what these boats can really handle.

Its also extreamly helpful to hear from the experienced skippers what to do if I end up taking on some real water.

Thanks for sharing your experience to help us newbies learn... not the hard way.

posted 02-05-2008 09:03 PM ET (US)            

Dave

posted 02-05-2008 09:14 PM ET (US)            

The waves looked bigger while seated! :-)

posted 02-06-2008 09:12 AM ET (US)            

Plugs are "impossible to get to and remove" when they need to come out. LONG before you think they ought to come out, they need to come out. I do carry them, and use them for nice days. I also use the "flip-over" type and not the "screw down the "T" handle type" and make a loop of BRIGHT ORANGE line thru the flip-lever and lead it out of the well so the line can be grabbed and pulled to yank the plug if needed. "Hey YOU.... Pull that orange line like your life depends on it, because it does" is sufficient instruction for anyone, as opposed to "Hey YOU.. kneel down there and grope into the 8 inches of cold water and feel under the pump and wires and all that crap and see if you can feel a little "T" handle... now loosen it, and try to yank the plug out..." Good luck.

I also carry a cut-off window washing fluid jug made into a scoop-bailer for (1) bailing, and for (2) bringing onboard salt water to scrub down the boat (think fish blood, etc). Really, you can get a LOT of water out FAST with one of these. Like Grandpa said, "There's no bilge pump like a frightened man with a bucket". Mine has a dog-snap on it, and it snaps to one of the steering cables and is there 100% of the time. Makes a handy piss-pot too in windy weather (and is nice and flexable for "her" to pee in too).

Stability of a flooded boat is marginal, and we have capsized one 17 Montauk while boating a large fish (one diver hanging on the rail, and two guys on the same side lifting a 40 pound fish over the rail in a beam sea). Yeah it floated "as advertised", upside down. We were able to right it, restart it, and get home. Didn't do the electrics any favors.

Dave Sutton

.

posted 02-06-2008 06:32 PM ET (US)            

Dave S- I like your idea of the cords on the flip-top plugs. I live in Seattle tho, and would probably have to go with colors like mauve, or avacado. Cool.We ARE GREEN up here, dontcha know?
And, yer Grampa sure had his stuff together about the 'bailer'! I forgot I had one...it lives in the anchor locker area. Your idea is a lot better...I'm going with the dog snap in the back of the boat. I saved the price of a Porta Potti by using that thing.Women will always use it when their bladder is about to burst, and then commend the thing for being reasonably comfortable. Good for fish guts during cleaning too.

posted 02-06-2008 09:52 PM ET (US)            

Even in good weather, one felt like he had just had a really good physical work out once back on the beach. I never felt unsafe while in the 15, but always was respectful and watchful of weather conditions.

posted 02-07-2008 09:39 PM ET (US)            

The bilge pump that i'm putting in the 15' whaler (classic) pumps 900 gph. I feel that this pump is enough for what i need. I take caution at all times with weather.

For those that don't know where the Juan de fuca islands are, they are locted in British Columbia, Canada. off the inner coast of Vancouver island.

All your ideas are helpfull.