Moderated Discussion Areas
ContinuousWave: The Whaler GAM or General Area
Montauk v. Carolina Skiff 17 DLV
|Author||Topic: Montauk v. Carolina Skiff 17 DLV|
posted 08-14-2011 01:08 PM ET (US)
I realize I am opening a can of worms asking [Boston Whaler brand] fanatics this question, but I have been looking for about a month or two for a great 17 to 19-foot Boston Whaler Montauk--mostly looking at 17's but open to up to 19. I want to be that guy who meticulously cares for a beautiful classic Montauk, but I am coming to terms with the fact that I am only that guy in my mind and with kids, work, and life will wind up feeling guilty and unworthy of such a boat over the next few years. Maybe in 10-years when we are empty nest. In meantime, I realize I really need something that is low maintenance, highly reliable, and immediately available for the somewhat [limited] number of opportunities to get out on the water with the family.
I have migrated (mostly) from looking for a well cared for classic to now looking at lightly used, pampered, low-hour 2004 to 2008 [170 Montauk]. There are not many of them out there--period. [An outboard motor using four-cycle combustion] is a must [for the] wife and daughter). General asking price range I have seen is $16,000 (for c.2004) to $20,000 (c.2006) to $23,000 (c.2008).
Currently I am considering a 2006 170 Montauk with less than 200 hours on Merc 90-HP for $19,900--the seller would likely take $18,000--in generally good shape and mostly indoor kept, but used by a teenager for last 18-mohtns, that is, trailer rusting due to no wash down. Has the motor been flushed regularly? [Thre is] some significant rust on hydraulic steering arms. [There is] concern over recent care.
Today, I looked at Carolina Skiffs just for comparison, not really thinking seriously, just looking, and I find these beautiful 2009 17-foot DLV's loaded for asking $16,500 to $18,000. I could likely get that 2009 DLV loaded and under warrantee until 2013 for probably $16,000--a lot less less than I could get the above 2006 Montauk.
I ask myself, as much as I want the Whaler--money does not grow on trees--should I consider a Carolina Skiff? It appears similar to the Montauk to me in many ways. I realize it is NOT a Whaler and I have never driven or been in one. Anyone here? How do they ride? Cut through waves similar to Montauk? Solid?
Any thoughts or advice much appreciated!
posted 08-14-2011 01:57 PM ET (US)
No attitude, no argument, nothing but advice I would give to my grandmother - Whaler. It's up to you. Great deals appear routinely. OR do your thing and you never go wrong. Either one gets you on the water and off the couch.
posted 08-14-2011 02:42 PM ET (US)
When pricing a used Boston Whaler 170 MONTAUK c.2002 you should keep in mind that the introductory price of those boats was only $17,655. Since then there has been a rather significant increase in the retail price of a 170 MONTAUK.
A c.2002 170 MONTAUK that is being shopped around at $16,000 has only been depreciated about $1,655 from its original manufacturer's suggested retail price. That is a depreciation of only about 9-percent. Most boat's lose 20-percent in value the moment you sign the purchase agreement.
posted 08-14-2011 02:44 PM ET (US)
Having friends that own Carolina Skiffs, the boats hold up well.....
The Ride not so much.
The Montauk is MUCH smoother in any rough water, from crossing boat wakes to a chop.
Also the retail value of the Whaler Montauk 17 seems to hold it's value better than the same size Skiffs.
I would look for the later versions of the Montauk, as
Boston Whaler got away from the teak, and made the seat and other components either composite or fiberglass.
posted 08-14-2011 03:17 PM ET (US)
Perhaps you should reconsider your original goal of owning a "classic" Montauk, which is substantually lighter than a 170. Personally, I was able to find my '85 for a bargain price because the original engine ('85 Yamaha 2-stroke) was shot. My goal was to repower, and even with the new Suzuki DF 80 4-stroke installed, total outlay was around $12000. Such a boat is normally very usable without major improvements, which you could certainly consider when you are more able. Normal immediate concerns on such a boat are perhaps loose screws on the rail mounts, some Teak oil on the wood, and a new rub rail, none of which require large investments in time or money. And voila, you are on the water.
Of course, if you are looking to finance your purchase, you are stuck with looking for something newer.
posted 08-14-2011 04:16 PM ET (US)
Another vote for a classic 17' Montauk or if you want a smaller boat, perhaps even a Montuak 150.
posted 08-14-2011 05:09 PM ET (US)
Carolina Skiff 17 DLV obviously is not a Whaler and never will be.
The Whaler you are looking at is over priced. You should be able to find one in the CS range you're speaking of in excellent condition. It may take a while but the season will be over soon for many and a good time to shop.
posted 08-14-2011 09:11 PM ET (US)
OPH: you are comparing a Cadillac to low end Chevy. Both will get you where you want to go, and both will give you a lot of pleasure. However, I understand your thinking about the cash, This is a decision you have to make on your own, and a decision you have to live with. I will tell you this the ride is better in the whaler and the resale value is better in the whaler, but again this is up to you, and how much are you going to use the boat and what for.
posted 08-14-2011 10:49 PM ET (US)
Thanks to all for the feedback, all great feedback. Here is the Carolina Skiff I saw: http://wilmington.craigslist.org/boa/2531348753.html
Pretty boat eh? BUT, it is not a Whaler, and I am back on 100% track for a Whaler. I do not need to be in a hurry, and as number9 mentioned, the season will be over soon hopefully bringing some more inventory, and likely right boat/right price to market.
There is a 2008 50th Anniversary Edition Montauk 170 90-HP with low hours, only fresh water, Mills cover, front sun cushion, fishing package, galvanized trailer, asking $22,800. Sounds high to me, but again, not a lot of inventory right now to compare. Any opinion of what a good price for that boat would be? Appreciate the votes for the re-powered classics and will revisit that a bit, too!
posted 08-15-2011 08:21 AM ET (US)
I don't recall that there was a 50th Anniversary Edition MONTAUK. Did I sleep through that model's introduction?
posted 08-15-2011 09:13 AM ET (US)
Don't be in such a hurry to buy. Winter is coming and with those cold days, more boats will be on the market. In addition, expand your search areas to include a greater area. Don't be put off by an even older model. These boats last and will always be in demand.
posted 08-15-2011 11:05 AM ET (US)
Well, I have been in both, and I like the whalers better. In reality Boston Whalers are not the best in rough water at this length. The older montauks ride like a tri hull bass boat. I have never been in a new one so I could not say. For resale, safety and just being plain ol bomb proof, they are my favorite.
posted 08-15-2011 11:12 AM ET (US)
I have a classic 1976 19' Revenge with a 5 year old Suzuki 115 4 stroke(170 hours) and a 2004 trailer that will be hitting the market soon for around $12k.
posted 08-15-2011 02:07 PM ET (US)
Yes jimh, there is a 50th anniversary montauk 170. I own one. OPH if you can but that 2008 for 22,800, and can afford it. Go for it. that price sounds very reasonable if the boat is in great shape.
posted 08-15-2011 09:36 PM ET (US)
Oh man do I know the feeling.
Job, wife, kids, life...you got it.
I *kind of* knew I wanted a Whaler.
Didn't know much about all the ins-and-outs of used engines, so bought new. Found a leftover 2008 190 Montauk in 2009.
Bit the bullet. $33k with Verado. Glad I did. Don't get to get out as much as my empty-nester buddies, but when I do its great. I went with the 19' because while it was only 2' bigger, it felt substantially larger. I usually have 3 kids aged 7 and under with me along with my wife, so that was important. Didn't think they would do well with the exposed gas tanks either...just too cool looking, another "don't touch." We've already made a lot of great memories on the boat and look forward to many more. Take your time and go with your gut. Best of luck with the search.
posted 08-16-2011 07:59 AM ET (US)
JH, sounds like you are happy with that boat, Is there anything unique/extra/different about the 50th Anniv Edit?
2012's start to come out soon, so a 2008 is likely closing on 4 years old. $23K just still sounds kinda high to me. Not outrageous, but not a 'buyers market' price either. Am I crazy to be thinking that boat should sell for ~$20K? At $23K I feel like I should keep looking. (it is 15 hours drive away so the transport/hassle factor may be playing into my math a bit too).
Blacklab,, I am heeding your (and number9/others) advice and being patient. (I have a great 6 yo black lab myself by the way, who loves to be out on the boat!)
posted 08-16-2011 11:26 AM ET (US)
OPH, nothing special about the 50th anniversary addition. Steering wheel center cap and 50th anniversary lettering really the only difference.
The 1st new boat I have ever bought. Very solid, much better at handling chop and bigger waves than the earlier hulls. Wide beam, stable platform. I wasn't big on Merc's before buying, but the Veradito has been trouble free. A few minor problems with the boat and trailer(lights, tires)but nothing to write home about.
I was looking at other boats and comparing costs when I went shopping, same as you. Sure you can get another brand, new boat, same size, for a lot less. But when you pull up to the dock with that almost new whaler,it turns heads that no Trophy, Stingray, or Carolina Skiff ever will. My wife was all for it, mainly because of the unsinkability factor, but she has become a whaler snob.
I plan on having my boat for the rest of my boating life, if not, it is because I found another whaler that I might like better, such as a 17, 18, or 19 outrage.
posted 08-16-2011 11:49 AM ET (US)
Once you get bit...Whaler fever stays for life. 42 years old and owned 23 Whalers. I owned ONE Carolina Shitt...ONE!
posted 08-23-2011 02:25 AM ET (US)
I have been in some unbelievable seas in my classic Montauk. Not something to boast about as it was not the weather's fault and certainly not the boat's fault that I found myself in the dangerous situations.
That being said, if you boat long enough you will find yourself in weather for which you did not plan. It's at this time you realize The Whaler is worth twice the price.
posted 08-29-2011 09:34 PM ET (US)
posted 08-29-2011 09:34 PM ET (US)
posted 09-08-2011 12:29 AM ET (US)
Keep in mind the above price quotes on used boats may seem high, but this is due more to the relative depreciation and current weakness of the dollar (inflation) rather than the ability of any particular vehicle which normally depreciates in value to resist depreciation. We currently can see the same phenomenon in used some used trucks and small cars as well. Though the rate of inflation does peak and wane, it does seem that most Whalers that are 20+ years old and in good condition do sell for at least the same price or more than their original sale price when new (market value of hull only). So, though you will feel some price depreciation in the short term, it is a good bet that a new Whaler today, will re-sell for more than it's current price in a few decades. Keep in mind that this only refers to the value of the hull and not the motor and trailer, which may often reduce the value of the whole package depending on their condition and age.
posted 09-09-2011 10:53 AM ET (US)
Respectfully asking: Has anyone voicing an opinion on the Carolina Skiff DLV ever taken one?
posted 09-09-2011 10:55 AM ET (US)
Respectfully asking: Has anyone voicing an opinion on the Carolina Skiff DLV ever taken one out to test and objectively compare it to he Whaler?
posted 09-09-2011 11:29 AM ET (US)
I drove a 21 DLV with a 115 on it. Big wide platform but Carolina Shitt quality. You get what you pay for, goes for cars, boats, motorcycles, dishes, fake X-Mas trees....you name it. Look at a $200 tree and look at a $110 tree, you will see what I mean. Good thing is you can get there on the 26th and nab that $200 tree for $89 for next year, can't do that with boats.
posted 09-09-2011 12:17 PM ET (US)
Tohsgib; Maybe if the economy keeps going the way it is....
posted 09-09-2011 03:49 PM ET (US)
True...Obama is trying to pass a $1500 tax stimulus plan. With $1500 everyone can go out and buy a Carolina Shitt. ;)
posted 09-10-2011 02:23 PM ET (US)
I owned a new 150 Sport and kept it for three years. I loved it, but found it to be too small for rough days on the bay, it could be frightening maneuvering a wake generated from a 28’ boat, and it certainly was not designed for any off shore use. I traded it in on a 19 foot Montauk, loved it, wonderful boat, very stable, and felt comfortable in it most rough inshore conditions. Even knowing it was unsinkable and also knowing the Polynesians survived navigating the entire Pacific ocean thousands of years ago in canoes with an outrigger, I never thought it prudent nor would I ever risk anyone in my family taking a single engine 19’ any major distance off shore, so after many years of enjoyment I was finally able to move up to a 32’ Outrage to run far off shore (I don’t think I even have to mention that I really love it.)
Several years after buying the 32’ Outrage, I began to miss a lot of my low water inshore activities. I came across a used 19’ DLV Carolina Skiff and I will be the first to admit that it is not of the quality nor does it have the fit and finish of my Whalers but it has truly earned my respect for what it is. It fundamentally has the same spoon bill hull; it is as dry or drier as my 19 Montauk, it too is unsinkable, and when used in the proper conditions for all boats under 20’, I feel as safe in it as I did in my 19’ Whaler, and there is just no comparison as to its sea worthiness when comparing to the 15’ Sport, and did I say half the cost?
Any engineer, at our expense, can overbuild something and then justify the cost of overbuilding by claiming it is stronger, better, and will last longer, but a great engineer can build the necessary form, function, and utility to complete an intended task resulting in reduced cost. Or in other words if your intended purpose when purchasing a car is to only typically drive 20 miles a day round trip to work using an expressway in southern California as opposed to owning a 10,000 acre a cattle farm in Montana requiring off road travel, purchasing a Toyota Camry in lieu of purchasing a Hummer makes more economic sense.
I am not in any way saying a Carolina Skiff is a better made boat than a Whaler, that would as absurd as saying a Camry is built better than a Hummer. What I am saying is it is a good boat and it is a choice as to how you choose to allocate your personal resources. You can take stock of your needs and make a decision based on value for those needs or correspondingly, if you can just afford it or if it just because it makes you feel more secure, you can always pay more and over spend.
As you pass old salvage yards, old marinas, and old fishing docks; you always see right beside the 20 year old plus hard worked commercially used Whalers equally old Carolina Skiffs still floating and fully loaded with crab traps ready to work another day. Within their marketed design purposes, I can think of no other boat made that has a utility value to cost ratio that is better.
With their tract record and judging them solely for what they are, they certainly are not a Carolina Shit.
posted 09-10-2011 02:27 PM ET (US)
Check out this current ad in our Marketplace forum, OPH:
Repower with a Yamaha F115 or a Suzuki DF140 and you'll have one of the finest little boats ever built...and she'll hold her value much, much better than a Carolina Skiff. You should get a decent amount for the current two stroke Yami 150, so you'll be well under twenty grand when it's all over. Trust me, the classic Outrage 18 is in a class all by itself, and '88 was a good year for 'em, let me tell you.
Oh do I miss Cetaceous 1988 OR 18!
posted 09-10-2011 10:26 PM ET (US)
A carolina skiff and a whaler are very different boats. The carolina skiff will go a lot places the whaler won't. It will cost must less and won't look at nice, but it is a very functional boat.
It really depends on what you want. No one needs to tell you what you want is wrong, it is for you to decide. If you want to go in very shallow water and want a boat that is very easy to fish creeks in, get the carolina skiff.
posted 09-10-2011 10:28 PM ET (US)
If you are comparing outrages to carolina skiffs, you need to think about what you want. Anyone that is trying to compare the two has no idea what they want in a boat.
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000
Purchase our Licensed Version- which adds many more features!
© Infopop Corporation (formerly Madrona Park, Inc.), 1998 - 2000.
Powered by: Ultimate Bulletin Board, Freeware Version 2000