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mikey morra posted 01-24-2002 02:15 PM ET (US)
ok guys!! I'm ready to crack open the wallet..heard all the talk twin 90's being underpowered-this is for bluewater only...no lakes or bays..any ideas?? best deals you have seen??? thanks,Mikey
lhg posted 01-24-2002 02:34 PM ET (US)
Mikey - Twin 115's, any brand, 2 or 4 stroke. If 4 strokes, the Merc's are 30 lbs lighter (each) than the the same engine Yamaha, and probably less money also. We've been hearing that engine weight is critical, and limited, on a 22.
If you can do the installation rigging, buy out-of-state, especially from a FL dealer, have shipped in minus the sales tax.
Didn't you just have a pair of 125 Mercs for sale?
A pair of engines is probably the same price as a big single with a 4 stroke kicker. Do like the Coast Guard did - go with the twins!
LarrySherman posted 01-24-2002 03:16 PM ET (US)
I'd get the Suzuki 4 strokes. If you buy in the winter, you can get the 6 year warranty.
Larry
mikey morra posted 01-24-2002 03:36 PM ET (US)
I sold the 125's,long funny story,and now I'm looking...any feedback on the honda 115/130..I heard that they check in at a fat 500lbs per motor or as my one buddy pointed out"like having a large girlfriend sitting on your transom"...thanks guys.
Bigshot posted 01-24-2002 03:42 PM ET (US)
Divorce sale if I remember correctly....funny story?
505lbs w/o prop so about 525 w/ss. 2 of those is equal to my 454 and outdrive...ouch!
Peter posted 01-25-2002 08:51 AM ET (US)
If you can still get them, the carbed Johnson 115hp (60 degree) V-4 has my vote. Light and lots of torque. I know somebody with the 90hp version of that motor on a Montauk and its a rocket.
Chap posted 01-25-2002 10:19 AM ET (US)
Hello,
I love my twins on our 1989 22 Standard Outrage no WD, standard console, two batteries in stern and RPS. It really tracks, pops on plane and provides redundancy. Sometimes rear seat, no a huge impact on trim espaecially with a full front cooler. Prior to purchasing, I posted this:
www.continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001255.html
We have 1989 120 Johnson VRO's and the 77 gal tank. If anyone stands in the far stern corner the ski/tow eye touches the water. At rest with nobody aboard and the sump plug out(no pump yet and may not install one), the water is a little over an inch from the bottom of the decking/cover.
I sat my 9 year old son, 90#, and a similar sized friend on the cowlings. Too much weight IMO. The boat takes on water now if you back down into any kind of weather and the bow catches MOOCHO wind at rest or slow idle. Right now this is all manageable, more weight however? It takes on no water coming off plane, even abrubtly. I do not need to repower today and would like lighter four strokes on her, we'll see. If I repowered today, I probably would go with 115 EFI Mercs or Yami's. I have buddy's with both, many hours, and they are bullet proof.
Thanks
Chap
Bigshot posted 01-25-2002 11:04 AM ET (US)
True but they are heavier than your 120's.....for now.
Chap posted 01-25-2002 12:31 PM ET (US)
I am going to push these loopers and see how low in weight the 4 bangers can go. No complaints right now.
Chap
Bigshot posted 01-25-2002 02:15 PM ET (US)
Consider the Suzuki 140 a benchmark for the next decade. Your looper weighs about 340? so I doubt they will ever get near that. Remember 2 strokes have gained some "sparetire" weight since 89 too. Things are not getting lighter even with todays technology. A 1972 125hp OMC weighed just under 300lbs....what the hell happened in the last 30 years?
Chap posted 01-25-2002 02:40 PM ET (US)
Hmmmmmmm, BS, serious food for thought.
You mean nobody is going to build me a nice light 115 4 banger for my rickitty old Outrage, bummer. No economy through weight savings going on here? Even the same size Guardian maintains the same weight restrictions, I believe, however a 30" transom would help. Build the boat around the motor or vice versa I guess, like when the Whaler Drive showed up or the original outboard motor for that matter.
Staying tuned.
Chap
Bigshot posted 01-25-2002 02:50 PM ET (US)
2 solutions: start convincing yourself that 416lbs is "light" or fill in that transom and bracket that puppy.....oh yeah!
lhg posted 01-25-2002 03:02 PM ET (US)
Considering price and weight as predominant factors, and assuming you want twins (do you?) either the Merc 90's or Bombardier V-4 2 strokes mentioned above, when available, are going to be hard to beat.
Don't ask me why, but every Mercury prop chart I have ever looked at shows the 3 cylinder 90 as strong as the 115 4 cylinder.
So save the money, and weight (45 lbs each) and get the 90's. They are one of the best small engines Merc has ever put out. They're about $4900 each these days, in Saltwater version, blue graphics.
I have also noticed that the OMC 60 degree 4-4 were nice engines. The only downside to two of those in an Outrage 22 is the separate oil injection tanks, requiring installation space that the boat doesn't have! The Merc & Yamaha integral tanks are a really nice feature for Classic Whalers, Montauk-Outrage 22 sizes.
SuburbanBoy posted 01-26-2002 02:00 PM ET (US)
As long as we are dreaming for Mikey, how about the Tohatsu 2-stroke line? 4-cylinder, 120HP or 140HP @360 lbs, or the 3-cylinder 90HP @300 lbs. If you want to complicate matters in interest of saving the world and protecting our environment, their 90HP TLDI is the kissing cousin of Merc's Optimax system. The 90HP TLDI, 3-cylinder @315 lbs. When comparing pricing, remember that they all are priced complete with props and controls.
Go for the twin 140's!
sub
mikey morra posted 01-27-2002 04:05 PM ET (US)
thanks for all the input-had a great talk this morning with a guardian 22 owner-he's going with the yamahaha's 115 4 strokes-done alot of research and had some great points...more food for thought.thanks again,mikey

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Author	Topic: ready to repower my 22cc
mikey morra	posted 01-24-2002 02:15 PM ET (US) ok guys!! I'm ready to crack open the wallet..heard all the talk twin 90's being underpowered-this is for bluewater only...no lakes or bays..any ideas?? best deals you have seen??? thanks,Mikey
lhg	posted 01-24-2002 02:34 PM ET (US) Mikey - Twin 115's, any brand, 2 or 4 stroke. If 4 strokes, the Merc's are 30 lbs lighter (each) than the the same engine Yamaha, and probably less money also. We've been hearing that engine weight is critical, and limited, on a 22. If you can do the installation rigging, buy out-of-state, especially from a FL dealer, have shipped in minus the sales tax. Didn't you just have a pair of 125 Mercs for sale? A pair of engines is probably the same price as a big single with a 4 stroke kicker. Do like the Coast Guard did - go with the twins!
LarrySherman	posted 01-24-2002 03:16 PM ET (US) I'd get the Suzuki 4 strokes. If you buy in the winter, you can get the 6 year warranty. Larry
mikey morra	posted 01-24-2002 03:36 PM ET (US) I sold the 125's,long funny story,and now I'm looking...any feedback on the honda 115/130..I heard that they check in at a fat 500lbs per motor or as my one buddy pointed out"like having a large girlfriend sitting on your transom"...thanks guys.
Bigshot	posted 01-24-2002 03:42 PM ET (US) Divorce sale if I remember correctly....funny story? 505lbs w/o prop so about 525 w/ss. 2 of those is equal to my 454 and outdrive...ouch!
Peter	posted 01-25-2002 08:51 AM ET (US) If you can still get them, the carbed Johnson 115hp (60 degree) V-4 has my vote. Light and lots of torque. I know somebody with the 90hp version of that motor on a Montauk and its a rocket.
Chap	posted 01-25-2002 10:19 AM ET (US) Hello, I love my twins on our 1989 22 Standard Outrage no WD, standard console, two batteries in stern and RPS. It really tracks, pops on plane and provides redundancy. Sometimes rear seat, no a huge impact on trim espaecially with a full front cooler. Prior to purchasing, I posted this: www.continuouswave.com/ubb/Forum1/HTML/001255.html We have 1989 120 Johnson VRO's and the 77 gal tank. If anyone stands in the far stern corner the ski/tow eye touches the water. At rest with nobody aboard and the sump plug out(no pump yet and may not install one), the water is a little over an inch from the bottom of the decking/cover. I sat my 9 year old son, 90#, and a similar sized friend on the cowlings. Too much weight IMO. The boat takes on water now if you back down into any kind of weather and the bow catches MOOCHO wind at rest or slow idle. Right now this is all manageable, more weight however? It takes on no water coming off plane, even abrubtly. I do not need to repower today and would like lighter four strokes on her, we'll see. If I repowered today, I probably would go with 115 EFI Mercs or Yami's. I have buddy's with both, many hours, and they are bullet proof. Thanks Chap
Bigshot	posted 01-25-2002 11:04 AM ET (US) True but they are heavier than your 120's.....for now.
Chap	posted 01-25-2002 12:31 PM ET (US) I am going to push these loopers and see how low in weight the 4 bangers can go. No complaints right now. Chap
Bigshot	posted 01-25-2002 02:15 PM ET (US) Consider the Suzuki 140 a benchmark for the next decade. Your looper weighs about 340? so I doubt they will ever get near that. Remember 2 strokes have gained some "sparetire" weight since 89 too. Things are not getting lighter even with todays technology. A 1972 125hp OMC weighed just under 300lbs....what the hell happened in the last 30 years?
Chap	posted 01-25-2002 02:40 PM ET (US) Hmmmmmmm, BS, serious food for thought. You mean nobody is going to build me a nice light 115 4 banger for my rickitty old Outrage, bummer. No economy through weight savings going on here? Even the same size Guardian maintains the same weight restrictions, I believe, however a 30" transom would help. Build the boat around the motor or vice versa I guess, like when the Whaler Drive showed up or the original outboard motor for that matter. Staying tuned. Chap
Bigshot	posted 01-25-2002 02:50 PM ET (US) 2 solutions: start convincing yourself that 416lbs is "light" or fill in that transom and bracket that puppy.....oh yeah!
lhg	posted 01-25-2002 03:02 PM ET (US) Considering price and weight as predominant factors, and assuming you want twins (do you?) either the Merc 90's or Bombardier V-4 2 strokes mentioned above, when available, are going to be hard to beat. Don't ask me why, but every Mercury prop chart I have ever looked at shows the 3 cylinder 90 as strong as the 115 4 cylinder. So save the money, and weight (45 lbs each) and get the 90's. They are one of the best small engines Merc has ever put out. They're about $4900 each these days, in Saltwater version, blue graphics. I have also noticed that the OMC 60 degree 4-4 were nice engines. The only downside to two of those in an Outrage 22 is the separate oil injection tanks, requiring installation space that the boat doesn't have! The Merc & Yamaha integral tanks are a really nice feature for Classic Whalers, Montauk-Outrage 22 sizes.
SuburbanBoy	posted 01-26-2002 02:00 PM ET (US) As long as we are dreaming for Mikey, how about the Tohatsu 2-stroke line? 4-cylinder, 120HP or 140HP @360 lbs, or the 3-cylinder 90HP @300 lbs. If you want to complicate matters in interest of saving the world and protecting our environment, their 90HP TLDI is the kissing cousin of Merc's Optimax system. The 90HP TLDI, 3-cylinder @315 lbs. When comparing pricing, remember that they all are priced complete with props and controls. Go for the twin 140's! sub
mikey morra	posted 01-27-2002 04:05 PM ET (US) thanks for all the input-had a great talk this morning with a guardian 22 owner-he's going with the yamahaha's 115 4 strokes-done alot of research and had some great points...more food for thought.thanks again,mikey