Pick a Boat for Me from Two Choices: Limited Population of readers: answer [16] questions

[sausalitoswiss]

My home port is Sausalito, California. I expect to use a boat more the 200-hours every year. My priorities: safety, comfort in chop, dryness, lower fatigue, and then cost.

Select a purchase choice for me from only the two 210 MONTAUK boats described below:

Q1 choosing only from the two 210 MONTAUK boats described below, which should I buy?

BOAT A
2024 210 MONTAUK with a Mercury 200-HP V6 XL CMS DTS with factory fiberglass hardtop and head, with trailer included, for $107,000 including delivery, and tax additional. I like this boat because the hardtop is already there for spray protection and for future curtains. A head is useful for mixed company. After purchase I would add front and side spray curtains.

BOAT B
2026 210 MONTAUK with Mercury 200-HP V6 XL CMS DTS, without a hardtop or head, with trailer included, for $109,000 including delivery, and tax additional. I like this boat because it is the latest model year, and it is clean slate to rig exactly how I want.

THINGS TO NOTE BEFORE YOU CHOOSE A or B

I care most about running dry and reducing fatigue on late‑in-the day returns trips.

A factory hardtop with curtains is the single biggest comfort upgrade on a 210 OUTRAGE.

To make BOAT B match BOAT A, I would need:

• the Factory hardtop for about $11,000
• a T-Top with enclosure for $9,000 (which won't be as protective as a rigid hardtop with proper curtains
• a head for $2,000

Note that if I add a top to the 2026, the price gap with the 2024 mostly disappears, and the 2024 is already Bay‑ready

MORE THINGS TO NOTE BEFORE YOU CHOOSE A or B
Considering first that I I’ll run in late‑day chop, the BOAT A with factory hardtop and head feels like the more comfortable and safe boat for the asking price. BOAT B is appealing if I want the newest VIN [perhaps meant HIN] and to build-out the boat with options myself, but as soon as I add a hardtop, the total ends up similar or higher while I’m starting out wetter.

MORE QUESTION BUT ONLY FOR OWNERS OF THE 210 MONTAUK

Q2: considering only use of San Francisco Bay [and quantified in some unspecified manner], what is the real-world difference in dryness between a 210 MONTAUK boat with a hard top and curtains compared to: a 210 MONTAUK boat with a T-Top?

Q3: again, considering only use of San Francisco Bay [and quantified in some unspecified manner], what is the real-world difference in dryness between a 210 MONTAUK boat with a hard top and curtains compared to a boat with a Bimini top?

NEXT TWO QUESTIONS ONLY FOR A 210 MONTAUK OWNER WHO HAS ADDED A CLEAR FRONT PANEL TO THE FACTORY HARD TOP:

Q4: what was the monetary return on investment or value of adding a clear front panel to the factory hard top on a 210 MONTAUK that has been used in San Francisco bay and described in some unspecified quantity for reduction of wind and spray?

Q5: what tips will assist me in installation of a clear front panel to the factory hard top of a 210 MONTAUK?

BACK TO QUESTIONS FOR ALL OWNERS OF A 210 MONTAUK:

Q6: would you pay more for a 210 MONTAUK with a factory hard top and head?

Q7: is no‑hardtop 210 MONTAUK just as [fungible] in northern California once you add a T‑top?

[Jefecinco]

Have you considered a similar Outrage? As comfort in a chop is your first and main priority why not start with a hull expected to be more comfortable in a chop and often equipped with a hardtop and side curtains. Note that a hardtop with side curtains will provide rain protection to about three people crowed around the helm.

[jimh]

Have you considered a similar Outrage?

The OP did consider an OUTRAGE in another thread he started one day prior to this thread.

See:

https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=9989

The OP was also considering a Grady-White, in a thread he started two days prior to this thread:

https://continuouswave.com/forum/viewto ... f=4&t=9987

[sausalitoswiss]

[Moderator's note: I have moved the quoted text to the beginning of this post in order that readers can understand the comments that are about to be made in response to this post.]

Have you considered a similar Outrage? As comfort in a chop is your first and main priority why not start with a hull expected to be more comfortable in a chop and often equipped with a hardtop and side curtains. Note that a hardtop with side curtains will provide rain protection to about three people crowed around the helm.

I agree [that a boat referred to as "a similar Outrage"] is the more capable hull offshore, and no question it’s more comfortable in open-water chop. The flip side for me, though, is that [a 230 OUTRAGE] brings a set of worse things for my specific use:

• Fuel burn: the 230 OUTRAGE with twin or even a single 300 will [consume] close to 13 to 15-GPH at cruise, compared to about 10 to 11-GPH for a 210 MONTAUK. At my pace of over 200-hours-per-year of engine run time, [the difference of 3-GPH to 4-GPH] will become thousands of dollars more in fuel every season.
• Operating costs: [the 230 OUTRAGE with twin or even a single 300 will] use more fuel, have higher insurance premiums, and likely require more (and heavier) maintenance.
• Size and weight: for the Sausalito area [a 230 OUTRAGE is] a bigger rig; and for solo handling will be harder to trailer, have deeper draft, and have more windage.

I’m also not running offshore regularly. My Bay runs will be frequent, solo or with family, and I want a boat I can manage comfortably, not one that leaves me with higher fatigue and higher bills.

For me, the 210 Montauk is the “sweet spot”: Bay-capable with a hardtop and curtains, low enough burn to make 200-hour-per-year sustainable, and still simple enough to run and own.

[NorthShoreWhaler]

I’d pick the boat with the hard top. Getting a factory top and having it installed after delivery is a big project. Having a custom top built is also a big project. If you choose to do the factory top make sure the dealer is able to actually install it. Once they leave the factory it’s much harder to add options.

[sausalitoswiss]

[Moderator's note: Again, the quote has been moved to the top of the post so that readers can understand more clearly that the remarks are in reply to the quoted text.]

I’d pick the boat with the hard top. Getting a factory top and having it installed after delivery is a big project. Having a custom top built is also a big project. If you choose to do the factory top make sure the dealer is able to actually install it. Once they leave the factory it’s much harder to add options.

Thanks much.

ADDING NEW QUESTIONS
Q8:Thinking further, for mostly San Francisco Bay use with occasional short coastal runs to places like Muir Beach, would a 2024 210 MONTAUK with factory hardtop and curtains[allow] me [to be sufficiently] confident and dry?

Q9: Is the extra comfort and extra safety of a 230 OUTRAGE in wave conditions of chop sufficient to justify the the higher fuel cost, need for a larger truck, and higher slip fees?

[jimh]

Q9: Is the extra comfort and extra safety of a 230 OUTRAGE in wave conditions of chop sufficient to justify the the higher fuel cost, need for a larger truck, and higher slip fees?

Q10: will you buy fuel at a fuel dock or fuel from a highway retailer?

Q11: what will be the typical fuel cost per gallon that you expect from your net fuel purchases?

Q12: will the boat be kept and stored on a trailer most of the time between using it in San Francisco Bay?

Q13: will the boat be kept in the water at a leased marina slip most of the time between using it in San Francisco Bay?

[jimh]

From the first paragraph in this thread:

My priorities: safety, comfort in chop, dryness, lower fatigue, and then cost.

Now that you seem to have decided that the 210 MONTAUK is the right boat, your reasons for that decision seem to have abandoned safety, comfort, and fatigue as factors, and you seem to be very focused on costs. This conflicts with your earlier hierarchy of decision-making influences, where cost was the least important.

There is nothing particular about Sausalito or San Francisco Bay that makes owning a larger boat more expensive to buy, more expensive to operate, more difficult to handle during trailer launching or loading. Those drawbacks come with larger boats no matter where you use them.

Larger boats tend to provide more safety, more comfort, more room to accommodate up to seven passengers, less spray, a less-wet ride, and less fatigue. But larger boats will always cost more.

Since you plan to use the boat you have yet to purchase for more than 200-hours each year, if you get a boat that has less safety, less comfort, less room for passengers, gives a wetter ride, and creates more fatigue, you are going to be subjecting yourself to more danger, more discomfort, a more crowded cockpit, more wet rides, and more fatigue.

I think the reason many boaters buy a new boat that is about two-feet larger than their current boat is because they expect a bigger boat would be more fun overall. Of course at some point the money just gets too crazy, and the actual purchase of a bigger boat stops.

For someone who will be operating the boat more than 200-hours every year, I would expect that characteristics like safety, comfort, dryness, and lack of fatigue from the ride would be quite important.

[fno]

I vote for purchase of the Grady-White. For only one reason: that some other forum will have to contend with the multitude of questions that would be better aimed at local knowledge of Boston Whaler use in San Francisco Bay.

[sausalitoswiss]

I vote for purchase of the Grady-White. For only one reason: that some other forum will have to contend with the multitude of questions that would be better aimed at local knowledge of Boston Whaler use in San Francisco Bay.

This seems like quite a rude response, but I don't really understand it either.

Q14: Are you saying I should have directed my Boston Whaler questions to a different forum specialized in use in SF Bay?

Q15: Why is this not the right forum (given it has nationwide membership and probably many members have experience or can simply ascertain the conditions)?

Q16: Why would a Grady White forum be used for Boston Whaler questions?

[Moderator's note: I have moved the quoted passage to be the first element in the post from its original location which was after the comments in reaction to the quote were given. Because the post consists entirely of a reaction to the quoted comment, to react to the quoted comment and then post the quoted material afterwards is not particularly a good way for readers to be able to understand the comments.]

[jimh]

I think the main point in the comment by fno is the total number of questions that have been asked. Considering there are now three separate threads on essentially the same topic, the discussions contain a rather large number of questions.

Tally of questions:

• 16 in this thread
• 9 in a second thread;
• 7 in a third thread;
• total of 32 questions.

ANOTHER POSSIBLE RESOURCE TO USE
I have found recently that if you ask a well-formed question to an artificial intelligence like GROK.COM you can get a very carefully considered and very thorough answer. Using that AI source might be a good way for you to decide on a boat that best suits your needs.

[fno]

SausalitoSwiss, I did not intend to be rude, sometimes my reaction to certain subjects is pointed and I guess that was the case here. As for an explanation:

This is a homegrown users forum that charges nothing to join, it never will be the forum to direct 20-some-odd-questions that are mostly pertinent to operating a Boston Whaler in San Fransico bay. Qualifying the target audience for your questions is also unseemly.

I have suggestion or two. Phrase your revised query in this way: "Looking for first hand experience with a Boston Whaler Montauk 210 in San Fransisco Bay. Impressions, good or bad are welcome"

Second method: Go to a few marinas and hunt down the owner of a 210 Montauk and seek out their impressions. If it takes buying them a few beers at the tavern, it will be money well spent.

[Thirsty Endgrain]

The best [source of information to help sausalitoswiss make a decision on which boat to buy] will be [from] sea trials.

I don't think anyone here will be able to answer sausalitoswiss's questions in a way that will satisfy him enough to allow him to make the decision.

All of the [Boston Whaler boats] sausalitoswiss is considering retain resale value. So if buys one boat and and finds doesn't meet his needs, he probably won't be out much money, and he is likely to have had some good fun along the way.

With any boat you have to pick your days, and especially in San Francisco Bay. When I lived there I took my 1964 GLASSPAR 17-footer out [into the ocean beyond the Golden] Gate [Bridge] a number of times. I was certain to pick my weather, but it was a small boat for those waters, no doubt, and not incredibly safe.

For decades my uncle [has] daily gone angling out there [i.e., in the Pacific Ocean] in his c.1970's OUTRAGE 21 Ribside. He chose that [boat] because he knows it will never let him down.

As stated already, if you've always wanted [a Boston Whaler boat] then nothing else will likely suffice.

[Which particular boat] will inspire in a particular individual the confidence in that boat is really 90-percent up to that individual person.

Now that I own a Boston Whaler boat, I feel much more at ease on the water. I think that is worth a lot. When I take out others I no longer feel a certain anxiety that comes with a boat that can actually sink. I am confident, but not cocky.